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 Battle mechanics 
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Joined: Mon May 03, 2010 5:48 am
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Post Re: Battle mechanics
From what I am seeing is that damage cap is based on defender ship decksize/2.

If scout has decksize 20 then highest damage he could receive is 10 hp no matter if he faces Galaxy Destroyer of 10k attack. The whole point of that is that scout is extremely agile capable of dodging so many cannons fired by 30 guns of the galaxy destroyer and one of 30 could hit that scout dealing some damage.. If that same galaxy destroyer fired 30 guns at another galaxy destroyer, it is more expectable to see all 30 cannons to hit head-on causing lot of damage.. It doesn't make sense to have ALL 30 cannons to hit on a TINY scout...

I really love that mechanic than old system several months ago..

I haven't tested large deck size for damage cap but I would wager that if ship with 2k decksize would expect damage cap of 1,000 ONLY if he got 0 defense..

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Wed Sep 22, 2010 2:11 pm
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Post Re: Battle mechanics
I don't think there's a decks/2 cap. Or well, if there is such a cap then there's more than just that. I mean I can't make much out of it as far as theory crafting goes. I get hit for more than my decks/2 if you factor in the defense. Can't figure it out at all so I'll just stack weapons and whatnot press "attack" and pray for a favorable outcome. Not being able to make strategies due lack of info sucks but then again it's not the first game that doesn't give much info. Thanks for the answers, regardless.

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Wed Sep 22, 2010 5:22 pm
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Post Re: Battle mechanics
DMDMDM wrote:
I don't think there's a decks/2 cap. Or well, if there is such a cap then there's more than just that. I mean I can't make much out of it as far as theory crafting goes. I get hit for more than my decks/2 if you factor in the defense. Can't figure it out at all so I'll just stack weapons and whatnot press "attack" and pray for a favorable outcome. Not being able to make strategies due lack of info sucks but then again it's not the first game that doesn't give much info. Thanks for the answers, regardless.


defense/2 cap seems to work well against very tiny ships but it might has diminishing return as ship gets bigger..

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Wed Sep 22, 2010 11:17 pm
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Post Re: Battle mechanics
Sorry for being a nag but I'd still like to see some kind of answer, from Dan or someone that at least tried to understand the mechanics.

Case 1:
Player with 336 (8xweapon) attack hit the NPC (525 defense) for 8-18 dmg.
Player switched to 178 (4xweapon) attack and hits the same NPC for 7-15 dmg.

At the same time

NPC with 65 attack hits player (56 defense) for 15-31 dmg.
NPC with 65 attack hits the same player but with (64 defense) for 11-28 dmg.

Case 2:

(Level of player +20) PvPGodofwarthatwillfightonlyplayerswayunderhislevellikeabully hits player during the night for over 110 dmg, player having 177 decks and 50 defense. So the max hit=decks/2 kind of falls out.

So what's the deal here ? How does it work ? How does the matching (PvP) system work ? How am I matched against a (my level+20) player ? That can obliterate me in one single hit when (my damage+400 from the trap) didn't killed him. What am I missing here ?

From the looks of it the game double caps the damage since you 1. You can get a maximum of 8xweapons (yeah I know you can get more at some point so shut up :) ) and 2. The benefit of getting from 4x to 8x is infinitesimal. I bet it's the same case with the defense modules as well.

I will state that I cannot play a game where I push the button to expect a random outcome. Feed me some info so I can plan some tactic, will you ? Thank you.

Edit: As I "whined" in another thread, getting 5k worth of research into it, buying the new weapons (386 attack now) then getting the same results afterwards is extremely frustrating. I know 5k worth looks like small potatoes for a lvl 200 but for me that's quite a lot. I'm not asking for nerfs or whatnot. Just let us know how the whole combat system works so we can plan some kind of strategy.

Later edit : Here's the thing that baffles me most. I am matched to a lvl 57 player, me being lvl 38 (otherwise I wouldn't be on his scanners, being a good boy and not doing anything naughty for the past week). So I think "Hey ! Maybe I am way ahead of my level as far as weapons and what not goes." That's just dandy fine. But when I look at my "matched" rare/uncommon NPC's they are quite ( not to say a lot) stronger than me and I get my arse served every time. You don't need to be a vulcanian to see that both match systems can't be right at the same time, now do you ?
P.S.

If you plan on stating the obvious and write things like "get better planets and research" or "get in a legion so you are stronger" or "stop whining" please do refrain yourself from doing so.

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Wed Sep 29, 2010 6:10 am
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Post Re: Battle mechanics
You were found in the battle tab of a higher level player because their scanning was good enough to see you. if you want to hide from bigger players, you will still need more cloak.

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Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:26 am
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Post Re: Battle mechanics
zophah wrote:
You were found in the battle tab of a higher level player because their scanning was good enough to see you. if you want to hide from bigger players, you will still need more cloak.

You kind of missed my point. Entirely. You are on someone else's scanner because the game matches you ( to its best of its capabilities) to his level. The level is "calculated" taking in consideration rank and your battle capabilities. Now my rank was 19 lower than him and my (also matched) PvE opponents say that I pretty much suck as far as battle capabilities goes. I wasn't talking anywhere about cloaking vs scanning power.

My real problem is that you can't play strategically. In the sense that you don't know if investing x RP in a weapon upgrade would be better than investing x in defense and shields. Because the battle mechanics are hush hush super secret. So you go and spend the x on weapons only to find out that basically a 20-25% extra attack will grant you 1% or less damage. And x is your research for a day or more. Given the fact that the weapons can't grant you infinite attack (since they are capped at 8x) it would make sense for the damage to increase linearly. It doesn't.

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Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:37 am
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Post Re: Battle mechanics
(by example & generalization) an increase in attack by 100% means nothing if you're just going from 4 to 8. damage increaces by number not by percentage. I instal light quantum devistators and on matched NPCs I deal 20 more damage to them than they do to me regularly.

You say cloaking/scanning doesn't matter yet you are attacked by a player 20 levels higher? the battle tab possibly matches you by combat, but undeniably it's their scan vs your cloak in order to find you. And (just gessing here) if you have reactors installed, even if they are just the first module, they take up a lot of space that is usable by attack and defense.

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Wed Sep 29, 2010 10:49 am
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Post Re: Battle mechanics
I assure you I have 8x my best weapons (plasma cannon) and 0xreactors since I can use my computer at work so I don't need them. The game shouldn't possibly match me. It should do it. Period. The problem is the 57 attacked me and I didn't see any player under 30 in quite a while in my battle tab, my level being 38. So 8 (eight) levels difference. Not 19 (nineteen). So I assume the game considers me super-duper as far as battle capabilities goes. Or everyone under 30 packs their ships with cloaks. Yet in PvE I suck. I didn't added 4 to 4 to get to 8. I added 50 to 336 to get to 386. Should mean something. It doesn't.

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Wed Sep 29, 2010 11:15 am
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Post Re: Battle mechanics
I see... there seems to be something happening that I don't observe.

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Wed Sep 29, 2010 1:36 pm
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Post Re: Battle mechanics
I'll have to say I agree with DM on this one... Not being able to plan or have some kind of tactic lowers the fun you can have in this game since you give yourself away to chance without knowing what you are doing. Now that DM brought this up, I remember the old days of Diablo when all you did was smash your right mouse button without any kind of strategy and hoping from random loot from monsters. Great games out there made it that far because there's strategy involved in their gameplay. I wish I could see the same from this game. I'm not asking to be given everything, but enough to keep it fun. A nice planetary invasion equation with an a viable (non fabricated) X component that makes sense and doesn't necessarily reveal the coding behind the equation would be great to have. Things like that. :)


Wed Sep 29, 2010 8:38 pm
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Post Re: Battle mechanics
Quote:
You kind of missed my point. Entirely. You are on someone else's scanner because the game matches you ( to its best of its capabilities) to his level. The level is "calculated" taking in consideration rank and your battle capabilities.


No it doesn't. The levels that are put on your battle tab are within a percentage range based on your level. As you level the levels higher than you will increase by a percentage of your level and the levels lower than you will increase by a percentage from your base level.

Dan has posted before on the base mechanics of defense vs attack. It's not a straight up attack minus defense as most ships would still be one shotted but a certian type of formula ( can't think of the term for it atm) that basically allows for diminishing returns. At equal attack and defense your going to hit for roughly 25-30 base damage. The damage is variable and keep in mind there are critical hits as well. The more attack you have over your opponents defense the more damage you will do over that 25-30 damage mark. The less attack compared to your target's defense and you'll start seeing those numbers dip below that 25-30 damage mark. Your damage itself is not based on the targets size but the damage CAP is, or the amount of damage that can be dealt to it in one hit. Don't worry about this, especially for mobs, you will not see this for a long long time.

Decks are still the most important thing to spend rank points on as you need decks for your moduals. Just don't slack on defense mods. Odds are you'r not going to have more than 2 or 3 normally for a while, though stacking defense in pvp can some times be preferable. As it stands right now your a very low level it you're just going to have a rough go of it. The mods your researching are going to be very poor quality in terms of what they offer for the deck space they take up, but this will improve as you work you way down the research tree. As it stands you'll have hundreds of levels on you before you can start having close to everything installed on your boat. Until then just strike a balance between them all and give it time. Here's some advice though, in pvp, I LOVE smacking ships around that have very little defense on them. Hitting some one for 250 damage while they're hitting me for 30 makes grinding them very very energy and cost efficient. Happy hunting.


Sat Oct 02, 2010 5:59 am
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Post Re: Battle mechanics
Just because the battle mechanics are not very apparent does not mean that we can not figure it out. It just makes it a little more difficult. With enough data and some basic analysis we should collectively be able to figure out a rough equation to let us know how much damage a attack will do against any given opponent. Now it might be harder it there are more variables than attack vs defense. However if deck size or amount of hull only places damage caps and does not figure in to the damage calculation it should not be too hard.

I am starting to record some data against each enemy that I fight. I try to record five attacks per enemy. I record my attack, their defense and the damage I did. I also record their attack, my defense and how much damage they do in return. I plot both of these in two separate graphs and I figure after I get at least 100-200 data points I should be able to figure a pretty good best fit line. So far it seems to be a pretty linear relationship so I am hesitantly confident that this should work out.


Sun Oct 03, 2010 7:10 pm
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Post Re: Battle mechanics
My problem is that about 99% of the players on my Battle list are several ranks above me, sometimes up to 20-25 levels above mine but hardly ever below. I would love to be able to see some that were at least equal. I've got some locked missions that I won't be able to get to because they require a certain number of player kills.


Sun Oct 03, 2010 8:34 pm
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Post Re: Battle mechanics
reeves.josh wrote:
My problem is that about 99% of the players on my Battle list are several ranks above me, sometimes up to 20-25 levels above mine but hardly ever below. I would love to be able to see some that were at least equal.


Try adjusting your scan up or down to see if reveals different players.


Sun Oct 03, 2010 10:46 pm
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Post Re: Battle mechanics
Igonb wrote:
reeves.josh wrote:
My problem is that about 99% of the players on my Battle list are several ranks above me, sometimes up to 20-25 levels above mine but hardly ever below. I would love to be able to see some that were at least equal.


Try adjusting your scan up or down to see if reveals different players.

How is scan relevant into the discussion ? I also get 99% of the ships on my battle tab 15-25 levels above me. With 55 scan. You think the lower levels (15-25 under me) have more stealth equipped henceforth I get only the higher levels ? I just got attacked during the morning by a guy level 73 vs my 49. Obviously he couldn't care less about my traps and the damage they do. Mind you, the guy in question has equivalent weapons (Light Quantum Devastator vs my awesome Heavy Plasma Cannon ) with my younger brother (ranked 105). So we are hardly a "match made in heaven" even if we disregard the level difference and at least the decks that derivate from that. At this point I couldn't care less what the exact attack vs defense is. I'm getting more and more frustrated by the fact that the game thinks that 1 equals 10. Yeah, the difference might be zero but they are not equal to the slightest.

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Mon Oct 04, 2010 8:23 am
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Post Re: Battle mechanics
The battle tab shows you players that are plus or minus a x% of your rank and have less cloak then your scan, I forget the exact percentage. Increasing your scan will reveal players that have put more of their research and deck space into cloaking instead of weapons and defense.
If you want to avoid being attacked from the battle tab increase you’re cloaking. The players that like attacking other players usually don’t have a lot of scanners installed because their decks are full with weapons, defense and hull. If your rank is less than 75 then I recommend having a cloak of at least 150.


Tue Oct 05, 2010 5:41 am
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Post Re: Battle mechanics
Looks to me that we're having two separate discussions going.

Let me reiterate what I find odd/strange/awkward. The vast majority (90%+) of players that are in my scan tab are way higher than my rank. If half of the said players would be way lower than my rank then what you say would make sense. The only conclusion I could draw, if I would be to use your information ("The battle tab shows you players that are plus or minus a x% of your rank") as valid, is that the said half of way lower players are stacking stealth madly therefore I see only higher ranked players. Do you understand what I'm trying to say ?

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Tue Oct 05, 2010 6:53 am
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Post Re: Battle mechanics
well i think it is possible that lower level players do stack cloaks to avoid being a target of hacks pvp until they feel they are ready for combat, or they switch them out to do missions and combat. it sounds like smart tactics to max cloak to avoid attention. you dont need hull,shields guns if the enemy cant see you, if you follow me.


Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:20 pm
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Post Re: Battle mechanics
DMDMDM wrote:
Looks to me that we're having two separate discussions going.

Let me reiterate what I find odd/strange/awkward. The vast majority (90%+) of players that are in my scan tab are way higher than my rank. If half of the said players would be way lower than my rank then what you say would make sense. The only conclusion I could draw, if I would be to use your information ("The battle tab shows you players that are plus or minus a x% of your rank") as valid, is that the said half of way lower players are stacking stealth madly therefore I see only higher ranked players. Do you understand what I'm trying to say ?


I was just giving a suggestion of how you might find players of different levels. I am sure that there is not an even distribution of players by rank in the game. Players that do not like the game will likely quit by level 20. Players that like the game will level quickly past level 60. If there was a big advertising push at some point then there would be a curve of players of different ranks around that time. So I do not find it odd that between ranks 20 and 60 you mostly find players at a higher level.


Tue Oct 05, 2010 12:58 pm
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Post Re: Battle mechanics
I realize this thread is somewhat old. I found it looking for different info, but I thought I might have an answer regarding the ranks of players showing up in your battle tab.

It could be a bracket thing. You may currently be in the lower portion of a level bracket.

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Fri Oct 22, 2010 4:00 am
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