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 plus % planet defences and invasion def question 
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Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:04 am
Posts: 1998
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Serne wrote:
not4use wrote:
Either way, even if invasion defence does get the 3x multiplier it still sucks cause it doesn't get any of the defence % bonus that defence structures get.

And I think what Serne said about even the best invasion defence structure in the game is not as good as one obv. barrier is true still as well.

Just saying.... :P


Thank you. Now I just need to crack the whip on my friend with getting the planet (that I finally delivered after he won an auction months ago on IOU) set up right. The way he has it bricked up right now is going to make the difference completely negligible as far as overall chance goes in relation to % difference thanks to Dan's rounding.

On that note... does anyone have a quick link to a program I can use to make a video of what's on my screen? That I could upload to like... FB ... Youtube... some random site that almost nobody actually uses... or whatever for a link here?



How is it bricked? Like this?
XRP Warp Inhibitor size 2 +800 def, immunity
X-Pulse Tower size 1 350 atk 350 def
X-Pulse Tower size 1 350 atk 350 def
Domain Walker size 1 atk 600 def 600
Domain Walker size 1 atk 600 def 600
Klorvis Troop Gateway size 1 atk 750 def 750
Affection Disseminator 4.0 size 1 Population 800, Defense 800
Affection Disseminator 4.0 size 1 Population 800, Defense 800
Siladon Suppressor size 1 1500 defense
Static better than researched, 1600 population, 2650 attack, 6550 def for 10 space
Note: X-Pulse might not be optimal because there are more +def% than atk%, so 700/700 might be inferior to 1200

Barrier HyperNexus size 1 Def 600 Def 30%
Barrier HyperNexus size 1 Def 600 Def 30%
Temple of Reflection size 1 30% def
Galakis Entry Port Size: 1 Population: 1,000, Defense +10%
T.O. Omnispanner: size: 1 10% defense
Anti-Grav Repulsor size 1 defense: +15%
Lepus Hatchery size 1 population 250 planet defense +10%
Dark Null Beacon size 1 def 1000 10% def
Litheor Transmutative Locator size 1 30% def
Galactic Concord Station size 1 20% def
Sarkonis Headquarter: size 1 +500 population +10% defense
Scruuge Hovertank size 1 atk +15% def +15%
Alarrir Compund Turret size 1 +15% atk +50% def(buff)
% def boosters, population 1750, 10% atk 15%x2, def 2200, 50% 30%x4 20% 15%x2 10%x5 for 13 space
Note, 15%x2 is not 30%, it's 1.15^2. Same apply to all others.
The def% here total to 1095% (or +995%)
Note: Alarrir Compound Turret might not be needed once buff is applied, as attack stuff is inferior. I'm not entirely sure thou.

Genome Modifier Tubes size 1 ID 2000 +50% atk(buff)
Lazuli Darkmine Cluster size 1 1200 atk 30% atk
Lazuli Darkmine Cluster size 1 1200 atk 30% atk
War Foundry Plant size 1 attack 500 attack +20%
Luring Cynosure size 1 Atack +40%
Rikthar's War Forge size 2 30% atk
Heist Dispatch Station size 2 attack 300 attack +10%
% atk boosters, a bit more optional as it's inferior to def stat in general
2000 ID, 3200 attack, 10%, 20%, 30%x3, 50% for 9 spaces.

Astrobiology Ward size 1 Population +500, Population Bonus +50%
Vorean Biostatsis Lab size 1 population +50%
Lepus Chromatic Gateway size 1 population +30%
Symbiont Test Lab size 1 20% population
Argent Consulate size 2 Population +40%
Vorean Habitat size 1 population 2000
population only structures, not needed for uber ID, but helps put of invasion nicely(along with the pop from other category)
pop 2500, 20%, 30%, 40%, 50%x2 for 7 spaces

Perma effect:
Crimson Intellegence +25% atk
Diversionary Tactics +35% def
Subterranean Caverns +30% def
Lush Biosphere +200% population
Large Moons +20% space(more OB)
~5k passive attack, 7k passive def

On a MC planet(97 space with moon)
Space used above 20-39, depend on how picky you are. Which means another 29 OB at least, up to 39 OB. 34800-46800 pre-mod def
Overall def % max is 4227%, so along with the 8750 def from above and 7k passive, we have: 2,137,106-2,612,723 defense.
The former will have more attack(around 80k), the latter will still have some attack(about 20k thanks to passive)
At the same time, the former will have 100k population while the latter only about 15k. Given that it is immune to artifact, that is a huge difference--85k clicks(475k energy)

PS: due to the information on many many different pages and manually compiled, I cannot guarantee that I have everything and I might have made some errors. But it look cool, no?

TL;DR:
You can have over 2.6 million invasion def, in order to have a 90% on that you'd need around 7 million invasion attack.

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Last edited by Uy23e on Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:20 am, edited 2 times in total.



Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:11 am
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Joined: Sun Apr 15, 2012 9:48 pm
Posts: 177
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Serne wrote:
Planet defense is used to calculate planet invasion defense. Such that 2400 defense on planet after legion bonus is equivalent to 7200 invasion defense. Should there be a invasion defense structure on the planet like a Lazuli Pylon it would then add 600 to that 7200 number resulting in total invasion defense of 7800. I hope this has enlightened you.

TL:DR The most powerful invasion defense only structure in game is still less effective than a single obviation barrier on the planet of a legionless player with an ion storm charge effect applied (that's 3020 invasion defense BTW)



Serne, would you please explain how you came up with 3020 for an obviation barrier with ion storm effect? According to your math as explained, it would seem to be 4680.
Thank you


Thu Mar 27, 2014 5:13 am
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Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:31 am
Posts: 277
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Leviii wrote:
Serne wrote:
Planet defense is used to calculate planet invasion defense. Such that 2400 defense on planet after legion bonus is equivalent to 7200 invasion defense. Should there be a invasion defense structure on the planet like a Lazuli Pylon it would then add 600 to that 7200 number resulting in total invasion defense of 7800. I hope this has enlightened you.

TL:DR The most powerful invasion defense only structure in game is still less effective than a single obviation barrier on the planet of a legionless player with an ion storm charge effect applied (that's 3020 invasion defense BTW)



Serne, would you please explain how you came up with 3020 for an obviation barrier with ion storm effect? According to your math as explained, it would seem to be 4680.
Thank you


1200 * 3 * .85 (although that's 3060, but very close)

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It doesn't ask to be excused,
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Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:07 pm
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Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:36 am
Posts: 970
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KJReed wrote:
this is true.
to be more accurate it is
(((planet def*planetdef multipliers) + (planetary attack * planetatk multipliers) + invasion def) *(1+legionbonus/100))*3 = Total Planetary Invasion Resistance

it basically uses the same logic as invasion attack, which is also not modified by things like crimson obelisk and ancient crystal foci, where after the base multipliers flat invasion attack is added before invasion attack multipliers are applied. (such as Decimators, Exotic Bio-Disruptor, and i do believe the konqul bonus)


Konqul is a bonus to a persons base attack. As in the actual attack they have so yes it DOES affect invasion attack, but not invasion attack only modules that is a different stat than what Konqul was designed to affect.

Legion Bonus is a bonus to Defense Attack and Cloak as stated directly in the game. Please note that there is a hover over on the page over EVERY legion in the game that specifically does not include Invasion Defense as one of the stats that receive a direct buff from the legion only actual defense of a planet which is used to calculate the total invasion defense of a planet.

Arbiter wrote:
False,

(planet defense + planet attack + Invasion Defense only structures) * 3 = #

I don't know why you think your 2400 defense vs 4800 attack wouldn't work out in this situation.

Note that the issue may be due to the fact that people refer to what you have symbolized with "#" as Invasion Defense, without regard for the fact that there is already something called Invasion Defense. I would call the "#" Invasion Protection, but I'm pretty sure I'm the only person here who believes in clear communication, so I don't expect other people will start doing that. This topic will probably remain a confusing muddle of misinformation due to poor communication skills.


You mistakenly make the assumption that a derived variable, Invasion Defense, cannot receive a direct bonus from a structure and be used as a visible stat in game at times, and therefore insist on using your new term. Total Invasion Defense works just as well as what you suggest and makes actual sense in relation to the opposing value in the chance roll, that opposing value being "Total Player Invasion Attack."

Uy23e wrote:

How is it bricked?
-a bunch of irrelevant stuff that in other scenarios would be extremely useful with explanations for the math challenged on how all % bonuses in game are multiplicative and not additive which should be obvious honestly-


Wish you had compiled a list of Invasion Defense structures there instead. Then I could yell at the kid a bit more effectively.

It is not a "good" bricking by any means. But the level of total possible invasion defense placed on the planet in relation to my maximum and minimum possible invasion attack values at the level he has managed to place invasion defense only structures is the problem. He only had access to 1 lazuli pylon and 2 Resonance Inhibitors so I am working with a difference in margin on our equations of a mere 3200 points. Trying to figure out values that will result in a high likelihood of my failure while STILL producing a visible percent difference on screen at time of failure is a bit of a pain to be honest, and convincing him to do the mission for the Statue of Magnus once and throw one of those onto it for the experiment so I have a larger margin that could produce a more noticeable difference has been like trying to extract a tooth with a toothpick.

Leviii wrote:
Serne, would you please explain how you came up with 3020 for an obviation barrier with ion storm effect? According to your math as explained, it would seem to be 4680.
Thank you


I see where I had my problem ... I got to 1020 and forgot to multiply on the 20 and just took care of the thousands part without the rest of it. So yeah ... 1020 * 3 = 3060. if 100% legion bonus that is 6120. If other sides equations are correct with a single lazuli pylon that becomes 7920. if mine are correct the total is 6720. without legion bonus the possible values are 3660 and 4860.

Once were are calculating invasion defense we only use the planets total attack and defense values so legion bonus isn't a consideration at that point. Values on the farthest right of each category on the planet page are what is relevant there. Using those specific numbers added together we multiply by 3 this then provides our intermediate invasion defense total. Then game then adds in invasion defense specific structures, if there are any, to provide a total for Invasion Defense.

I have now explained by words my equation.

This is what it looks like (Total_Planet_attack + Total_Planet_Defense)*3 + Value_of_Invasion_Defense_Structures = Total Invasion Defense

There perhaps that should read better for you.

______________________________________________________

I never want to make that many quotes EVER AGAIN. I started writing all of this out like an hour ago. I am now going to go lay my head on a pillow and stare at the ceiling while wishing I was asleep.

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Well it was an ill considered idea in the first place.


Last edited by Serne on Thu Mar 27, 2014 4:51 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Thu Mar 27, 2014 4:46 pm
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Serne wrote:
This is what it looks like (Total_Planet_attack + Total_Planet_Defense)*3 + Value_of_Invasion_Defense_Structures = Total Invasion Defense


Writing it differently doesn't make it any less wrong.

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"I guess love's a funny thing--the way it fades away without a warning.
It doesn't ask to be excused,
and when it's gone--oh, it's gone--it ain't ever coming back"


Thu Mar 27, 2014 4:49 pm
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