View unanswered posts | View active topics It is currently Thu Mar 28, 2024 6:52 pm



Reply to topic  [ 25 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next
 plus % planet defences and invasion def question 
Author Message

Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:15 am
Posts: 3056
Reply with quote
lets say i throw a barrier nexus or galactic concord station on a planet that has some invasion def structures, do they also get the bonus to invasion def? it doesnt show up on the regular def listing so im just curious.

_________________
Image
This is my dog, Icarium, It was a very windy day.
Leader of Icariums Fate, level 6 base
Image


Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:45 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Thu Oct 13, 2011 8:37 pm
Posts: 4415
Reply with quote
icarium81 wrote:
lets say i throw a barrier nexus or galactic concord station on a planet that has some invasion def structures, do they also get the bonus to invasion def? it doesnt show up on the regular def listing so im just curious.

I'm sure it's in multiple threads across the forums, but I'd sure like to hear a yes or a no on this topic too.


Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:03 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Sun Feb 20, 2011 5:26 am
Posts: 337
Reply with quote
Bump! Still looking for a firm answer this one :mrgreen:

_________________
MiracleOne, The Annihilator: Rank 1050
Insane (Epic Legendary) Unbuffed Strength: 120,000+ w/Unbuffed Armor: 250,000+

Image
The Dark Justice, assisting New Ship Members w/Everyday Even Strong Artifacts Payout


Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:30 am
Profile

Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:22 am
Posts: 1121
Reply with quote
Yes.


Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:10 am
Profile WWW

Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:31 am
Posts: 277
Reply with quote
asquall wrote:
Yes.


Why do you say that? I'm pretty sure % Defense only applies to Defense, not Invasion Defense.

_________________
"I guess love's a funny thing--the way it fades away without a warning.
It doesn't ask to be excused,
and when it's gone--oh, it's gone--it ain't ever coming back"


Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:04 pm
Profile

Joined: Wed Dec 05, 2012 8:22 am
Posts: 1121
Reply with quote
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=38661&p=394696&hilit=invasion#p394696

From the wording of the wiki, it seems it does indeed not affected by def % bonuses, except legion bonus. My apology.


Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:38 am
Profile WWW
User avatar

Joined: Sat Oct 05, 2013 4:36 am
Posts: 4
Reply with quote
% defense items only increase the planet defense. Invasion defense is the sum of planet defense + attack + any invasion defense items. So overall using a defense structure is more effective than an invasion defense structure.


Sat Mar 22, 2014 8:24 am
Profile

Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:31 am
Posts: 277
Reply with quote
Imobjoas wrote:
% defense items only increase the planet defense. Invasion defense is the sum of planet defense + attack + any invasion defense items. So overall using a defense structure is more effective than an invasion defense structure.



You don't see the problem there?

He was asking about the latter invasion defense specifically, not the former.

_________________
"I guess love's a funny thing--the way it fades away without a warning.
It doesn't ask to be excused,
and when it's gone--oh, it's gone--it ain't ever coming back"


Sat Mar 22, 2014 1:34 pm
Profile

Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:04 am
Posts: 1998
Reply with quote
Arbiter wrote:
Imobjoas wrote:
% defense items only increase the planet defense. Invasion defense is the sum of planet defense + attack + any invasion defense items. So overall using a defense structure is more effective than an invasion defense structure.



You don't see the problem there?

He was asking about the latter invasion defense specifically, not the former.


but you can see from that equation that ID only structure is not in the same "group" as defense. So the effect on one(and only one) would certainly not apply to the other. In other words, from the invasion defense structure perspective, +def% is no different than +atk% boost, and you can probably guess the latter would not apply to it.
Legion bonus is the only bonus that applies to all category.

_________________
当所有传奇写下第一个篇章 原来所谓英雄也和我们一样
私は一発の銃弾、銃弾は人の心を持たない。故に、何も考えない。ただ、目的に向かって飛ぶだけ


Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:15 pm
Profile

Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:36 am
Posts: 970
Reply with quote
Planet defense is used to calculate planet invasion defense. Such that 2400 defense on planet after legion bonus is equivalent to 7200 invasion defense. Should there be a invasion defense structure on the planet like a Lazuli Pylon it would then add 600 to that 7200 number resulting in total invasion defense of 7800. I hope this has enlightened you.

TL:DR The most powerful invasion defense only structure in game is still less effective than a single obviation barrier on the planet of a legionless player with an ion storm charge effect applied (that's 3020 invasion defense BTW)

_________________
SIG'D

The Prisoner wrote:
You know something's wrong when the Trade Outpost sub-forum has the most interesting topics


Well it was an ill considered idea in the first place.


Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:09 pm
Profile

Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:31 am
Posts: 277
Reply with quote
Serne wrote:
Planet defense is used to calculate planet invasion defense. Such that 2400 defense on planet after legion bonus is equivalent to 7200 invasion defense. Should there be a invasion defense structure on the planet like a Lazuli Pylon it would then add 600 to that 7200 number resulting in total invasion defense of 7800. I hope this has enlightened you.

TL:DR The most powerful invasion defense only structure in game is still less effective than a single obviation barrier on the planet of a legionless player with an ion storm charge effect applied (that's 3020 invasion defense BTW)


That is not the case, 1200 Invasion Defense is the same as 1200 Defense.

_________________
"I guess love's a funny thing--the way it fades away without a warning.
It doesn't ask to be excused,
and when it's gone--oh, it's gone--it ain't ever coming back"


Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:24 pm
Profile

Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:31 am
Posts: 277
Reply with quote
Uy23e wrote:
Arbiter wrote:
Imobjoas wrote:
% defense items only increase the planet defense. Invasion defense is the sum of planet defense + attack + any invasion defense items. So overall using a defense structure is more effective than an invasion defense structure.



You don't see the problem there?

He was asking about the latter invasion defense specifically, not the former.


but you can see from that equation that ID only structure is not in the same "group" as defense. So the effect on one(and only one) would certainly not apply to the other. In other words, from the invasion defense structure perspective, +def% is no different than +atk% boost, and you can probably guess the latter would not apply to it.
Legion bonus is the only bonus that applies to all category.


Yes, that's what he was trying to say.

_________________
"I guess love's a funny thing--the way it fades away without a warning.
It doesn't ask to be excused,
and when it's gone--oh, it's gone--it ain't ever coming back"


Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:25 pm
Profile

Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:36 am
Posts: 970
Reply with quote
Arbiter wrote:
Serne wrote:
Planet defense is used to calculate planet invasion defense. Such that 2400 defense on planet after legion bonus is equivalent to 7200 invasion defense. Should there be a invasion defense structure on the planet like a Lazuli Pylon it would then add 600 to that 7200 number resulting in total invasion defense of 7800. I hope this has enlightened you.

TL:DR The most powerful invasion defense only structure in game is still less effective than a single obviation barrier on the planet of a legionless player with an ion storm charge effect applied (that's 3020 invasion defense BTW)


That is not the case, 1200 Invasion Defense is the same as 1200 Defense.


Please try again arbiter. Do explain how that 2400 defense after legion bonus makes a person with 4800 attack in a straight invade have a 67%(rounding) chance without my statement being true.

If you can't without making planet defense(actual) a weighted factor in the invasion defense equation then you should concede your point, and let mine stand.

Or do I need to set up an experiment showing this once and for all with screen shots to prove myself before people concede the point that I am correct here?

_________________
SIG'D

The Prisoner wrote:
You know something's wrong when the Trade Outpost sub-forum has the most interesting topics


Well it was an ill considered idea in the first place.


Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:15 am
Profile

Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:04 am
Posts: 1998
Reply with quote
Serne wrote:
Arbiter wrote:
Serne wrote:
Planet defense is used to calculate planet invasion defense. Such that 2400 defense on planet after legion bonus is equivalent to 7200 invasion defense. Should there be a invasion defense structure on the planet like a Lazuli Pylon it would then add 600 to that 7200 number resulting in total invasion defense of 7800. I hope this has enlightened you.

TL:DR The most powerful invasion defense only structure in game is still less effective than a single obviation barrier on the planet of a legionless player with an ion storm charge effect applied (that's 3020 invasion defense BTW)


That is not the case, 1200 Invasion Defense is the same as 1200 Defense.


Please try again arbiter. Do explain how that 2400 defense after legion bonus makes a person with 4800 attack in a straight invade have a 67%(rounding) chance without my statement being true.

If you can't without making planet defense(actual) a weighted factor in the invasion defense equation then you should concede your point, and let mine stand.

Or do I need to set up an experiment showing this once and for all with screen shots to prove myself before people concede the point that I am correct here?


But 2400 vs 4800 should be exactly 67%. it's 4800/(2400*3)=4800/7200=67%
So where is the problem?
The question should be how was the 2400 arrived at, what did he have and what was his Legion bonus?

_________________
当所有传奇写下第一个篇章 原来所谓英雄也和我们一样
私は一発の銃弾、銃弾は人の心を持たない。故に、何も考えない。ただ、目的に向かって飛ぶだけ


Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:14 am
Profile

Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:36 am
Posts: 970
Reply with quote
Uy23e wrote:
Serne wrote:
Planet defense is used to calculate planet invasion defense. Such that 2400 defense on planet after legion bonus is equivalent to 7200 invasion defense. Should there be a invasion defense structure on the planet like a Lazuli Pylon it would then add 600 to that 7200 number resulting in total invasion defense of 7800. I hope this has enlightened you.

TL:DR The most powerful invasion defense only structure in game is still less effective than a single obviation barrier on the planet of a legionless player with an ion storm charge effect applied (that's 3020 invasion defense BTW)

Arbiter here -

That is not the case, 1200 Invasion Defense is the same as 1200 Defense.

end Arbiter -

Please try again arbiter. Do explain how that 2400 defense after legion bonus makes a person with 4800 attack in a straight invade have a 67%(rounding) chance without my statement being true.

If you can't without making planet defense(actual) a weighted factor in the invasion defense equation then you should concede your point, and let mine stand.

Or do I need to set up an experiment showing this once and for all with screen shots to prove myself before people concede the point that I am correct here?


But 2400 vs 4800 should be exactly 67%. it's 4800/(2400*3)=4800/7200=67%
So where is the problem?
The question should be how was the 2400 arrived at, what did he have and what was his Legion bonus?


It is the same single obviation barrier in a legion with 100% bonus from my previous example. Notice the 2400 real defense becomes 7200 in that equation? At that point it is Invasion Defense to which an invasion defense structure gets ADDED.

In 3 days I will have a screenshot showing what I have been saying for at this point over a year. So people can pull their heads out of their behinds.

But here's the math on the thing... (planet defense + planet attack)*3 + Invasion Defense only structures = #

_________________
SIG'D

The Prisoner wrote:
You know something's wrong when the Trade Outpost sub-forum has the most interesting topics


Well it was an ill considered idea in the first place.


Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:32 am
Profile

Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:31 am
Posts: 277
Reply with quote
Serne wrote:
(planet defense + planet attack)*3 + Invasion Defense only structures = #


False,

(planet defense + planet attack + Invasion Defense only structures) * 3 = #

I don't know why you think your 2400 defense vs 4800 attack wouldn't work out in this situation.

Note that the issue may be due to the fact that people refer to what you have symbolized with "#" as Invasion Defense, without regard for the fact that there is already something called Invasion Defense. I would call the "#" Invasion Protection, but I'm pretty sure I'm the only person here who believes in clear communication, so I don't expect other people will start doing that. This topic will probably remain a confusing muddle of misinformation due to poor communication skills.

_________________
"I guess love's a funny thing--the way it fades away without a warning.
It doesn't ask to be excused,
and when it's gone--oh, it's gone--it ain't ever coming back"


Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:49 pm
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Mon Nov 21, 2011 1:08 am
Posts: 3142
Reply with quote
Arbiter wrote:
Serne wrote:
(planet defense + planet attack)*3 + Invasion Defense only structures = #


False,

(planet defense + planet attack + Invasion Defense only structures) * 3 = #

I don't know why you think your 2400 defense vs 4800 attack wouldn't work out in this situation.

Note that the issue may be due to the fact that people refer to what you have symbolized with "#" as Invasion Defense, without regard for the fact that there is already something called Invasion Defense. I would call the "#" Invasion Protection, but I'm pretty sure I'm the only person here who believes in clear communication, so I don't expect other people will start doing that. This topic will probably remain a confusing muddle of misinformation due to poor communication skills.

this is true.
to be more accurate it is
(((planet def*planetdef multipliers) + (planetary attack * planetatk multipliers) + invasion def) *(1+legionbonus/100))*3 = Total Planetary Invasion Resistance

it basically uses the same logic as invasion attack, which is also not modified by things like crimson obelisk and ancient crystal foci, where after the base multipliers flat invasion attack is added before invasion attack multipliers are applied. (such as Decimators, Exotic Bio-Disruptor, and i do believe the konqul bonus)

_________________
Image
http://www.universegenesis.com/bonus.php?id=7704&rofl=1f1616039121f25&lol=72141855&boss=SteelWolverine


ICBLF wrote:
to be honest, I was rooting for you even while eating KVTs


Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:02 am
Profile
User avatar

Joined: Fri Mar 02, 2012 6:15 pm
Posts: 303
Reply with quote
Either way, even if invasion defence does get the 3x multiplier it still sucks cause it doesn't get any of the defence % bonus that defence structures get.

And I think what Serne said about even the best invasion defence structure in the game is not as good as one obv. barrier is true still as well.

Just saying.... :P

_________________
Image


Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:36 am
Profile

Joined: Mon Aug 13, 2012 5:36 am
Posts: 970
Reply with quote
not4use wrote:
Either way, even if invasion defence does get the 3x multiplier it still sucks cause it doesn't get any of the defence % bonus that defence structures get.

And I think what Serne said about even the best invasion defence structure in the game is not as good as one obv. barrier is true still as well.

Just saying.... :P


Thank you. Now I just need to crack the whip on my friend with getting the planet (that I finally delivered after he won an auction months ago on IOU) set up right. The way he has it bricked up right now is going to make the difference completely negligible as far as overall chance goes in relation to % difference thanks to Dan's rounding.

On that note... does anyone have a quick link to a program I can use to make a video of what's on my screen? That I could upload to like... FB ... Youtube... some random site that almost nobody actually uses... or whatever for a link here?

_________________
SIG'D

The Prisoner wrote:
You know something's wrong when the Trade Outpost sub-forum has the most interesting topics


Well it was an ill considered idea in the first place.


Thu Mar 27, 2014 3:34 am
Profile

Joined: Fri Jan 24, 2014 3:31 am
Posts: 277
Reply with quote
Serne wrote:
not4use wrote:
Either way, even if invasion defence does get the 3x multiplier it still sucks cause it doesn't get any of the defence % bonus that defence structures get.

And I think what Serne said about even the best invasion defence structure in the game is not as good as one obv. barrier is true still as well.

Just saying.... :P


Thank you. Now I just need to crack the whip on my friend with getting the planet (that I finally delivered after he won an auction months ago on IOU) set up right. The way he has it bricked up right now is going to make the difference completely negligible as far as overall chance goes in relation to % difference thanks to Dan's rounding.

On that note... does anyone have a quick link to a program I can use to make a video of what's on my screen? That I could upload to like... FB ... Youtube... some random site that almost nobody actually uses... or whatever for a link here?


You can just take a screenshot, we already know the formula anyway.

_________________
"I guess love's a funny thing--the way it fades away without a warning.
It doesn't ask to be excused,
and when it's gone--oh, it's gone--it ain't ever coming back"


Thu Mar 27, 2014 3:51 am
Profile
Display posts from previous:  Sort by  
Reply to topic   [ 25 posts ]  Go to page 1, 2  Next

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 22 guests


You cannot post new topics in this forum
You cannot reply to topics in this forum
You cannot edit your posts in this forum
You cannot delete your posts in this forum

Search for:
Jump to:  
cron
Powered by phpBB® Forum Software © phpBB Group
Designed by ST Software.