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plus % planet defences and invasion def question
http://galaxylegion.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=28075		 Page 1 of 2
Author:  icarium81 [ Sun Aug 19, 2012 9:45 pm ]
Post subject:  plus % planet defences and invasion def question
lets say i throw a barrier nexus or galactic concord station on a planet that has some invasion def structures, do they also get the bonus to invasion def? it doesnt show up on the regular def listing so im just curious.
Author:  Epicownage [ Mon Aug 20, 2012 10:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: plus % planet defences and invasion def question
icarium81 wrote:
lets say i throw a barrier nexus or galactic concord station on a planet that has some invasion def structures, do they also get the bonus to invasion def? it doesnt show up on the regular def listing so im just curious.

I'm sure it's in multiple threads across the forums, but I'd sure like to hear a yes or a no on this topic too.
Author:  MiracleOne [ Fri Mar 21, 2014 7:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: plus % planet defences and invasion def question
Bump! Still looking for a firm answer this one :mrgreen:
Author:  asquall [ Fri Mar 21, 2014 8:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: plus % planet defences and invasion def question
Yes.
Author:  Arbiter [ Fri Mar 21, 2014 1:04 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: plus % planet defences and invasion def question
asquall wrote:
Yes.


Why do you say that? I'm pretty sure % Defense only applies to Defense, not Invasion Defense.
Author:  asquall [ Sat Mar 22, 2014 12:38 am ]
Post subject:  Re: plus % planet defences and invasion def question
viewtopic.php?f=3&t=38661&p=394696&hilit=invasion#p394696

From the wording of the wiki, it seems it does indeed not affected by def % bonuses, except legion bonus. My apology.
Author:  Imobjoas [ Sat Mar 22, 2014 8:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: plus % planet defences and invasion def question
% defense items only increase the planet defense. Invasion defense is the sum of planet defense + attack + any invasion defense items. So overall using a defense structure is more effective than an invasion defense structure.
Author:  Arbiter [ Sat Mar 22, 2014 1:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: plus % planet defences and invasion def question
Imobjoas wrote:
% defense items only increase the planet defense. Invasion defense is the sum of planet defense + attack + any invasion defense items. So overall using a defense structure is more effective than an invasion defense structure.



You don't see the problem there?

He was asking about the latter invasion defense specifically, not the former.
Author:  Uy23e [ Mon Mar 24, 2014 7:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: plus % planet defences and invasion def question
Arbiter wrote:
Imobjoas wrote:
% defense items only increase the planet defense. Invasion defense is the sum of planet defense + attack + any invasion defense items. So overall using a defense structure is more effective than an invasion defense structure.



You don't see the problem there?

He was asking about the latter invasion defense specifically, not the former.


but you can see from that equation that ID only structure is not in the same "group" as defense. So the effect on one(and only one) would certainly not apply to the other. In other words, from the invasion defense structure perspective, +def% is no different than +atk% boost, and you can probably guess the latter would not apply to it.
Legion bonus is the only bonus that applies to all category.
Author:  Serne [ Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: plus % planet defences and invasion def question
Planet defense is used to calculate planet invasion defense. Such that 2400 defense on planet after legion bonus is equivalent to 7200 invasion defense. Should there be a invasion defense structure on the planet like a Lazuli Pylon it would then add 600 to that 7200 number resulting in total invasion defense of 7800. I hope this has enlightened you.

TL:DR The most powerful invasion defense only structure in game is still less effective than a single obviation barrier on the planet of a legionless player with an ion storm charge effect applied (that's 3020 invasion defense BTW)
Author:  Arbiter [ Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: plus % planet defences and invasion def question
Serne wrote:
Planet defense is used to calculate planet invasion defense. Such that 2400 defense on planet after legion bonus is equivalent to 7200 invasion defense. Should there be a invasion defense structure on the planet like a Lazuli Pylon it would then add 600 to that 7200 number resulting in total invasion defense of 7800. I hope this has enlightened you.

TL:DR The most powerful invasion defense only structure in game is still less effective than a single obviation barrier on the planet of a legionless player with an ion storm charge effect applied (that's 3020 invasion defense BTW)


That is not the case, 1200 Invasion Defense is the same as 1200 Defense.
Author:  Arbiter [ Mon Mar 24, 2014 8:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: plus % planet defences and invasion def question
Uy23e wrote:
Arbiter wrote:
Imobjoas wrote:
% defense items only increase the planet defense. Invasion defense is the sum of planet defense + attack + any invasion defense items. So overall using a defense structure is more effective than an invasion defense structure.



You don't see the problem there?

He was asking about the latter invasion defense specifically, not the former.


but you can see from that equation that ID only structure is not in the same "group" as defense. So the effect on one(and only one) would certainly not apply to the other. In other words, from the invasion defense structure perspective, +def% is no different than +atk% boost, and you can probably guess the latter would not apply to it.
Legion bonus is the only bonus that applies to all category.


Yes, that's what he was trying to say.
Author:  Serne [ Tue Mar 25, 2014 9:15 am ]
Post subject:  Re: plus % planet defences and invasion def question
Arbiter wrote:
Serne wrote:
Planet defense is used to calculate planet invasion defense. Such that 2400 defense on planet after legion bonus is equivalent to 7200 invasion defense. Should there be a invasion defense structure on the planet like a Lazuli Pylon it would then add 600 to that 7200 number resulting in total invasion defense of 7800. I hope this has enlightened you.

TL:DR The most powerful invasion defense only structure in game is still less effective than a single obviation barrier on the planet of a legionless player with an ion storm charge effect applied (that's 3020 invasion defense BTW)


That is not the case, 1200 Invasion Defense is the same as 1200 Defense.


Please try again arbiter. Do explain how that 2400 defense after legion bonus makes a person with 4800 attack in a straight invade have a 67%(rounding) chance without my statement being true.

If you can't without making planet defense(actual) a weighted factor in the invasion defense equation then you should concede your point, and let mine stand.

Or do I need to set up an experiment showing this once and for all with screen shots to prove myself before people concede the point that I am correct here?
Author:  Uy23e [ Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:14 am ]
Post subject:  Re: plus % planet defences and invasion def question
Serne wrote:
Arbiter wrote:
Serne wrote:
Planet defense is used to calculate planet invasion defense. Such that 2400 defense on planet after legion bonus is equivalent to 7200 invasion defense. Should there be a invasion defense structure on the planet like a Lazuli Pylon it would then add 600 to that 7200 number resulting in total invasion defense of 7800. I hope this has enlightened you.

TL:DR The most powerful invasion defense only structure in game is still less effective than a single obviation barrier on the planet of a legionless player with an ion storm charge effect applied (that's 3020 invasion defense BTW)


That is not the case, 1200 Invasion Defense is the same as 1200 Defense.


Please try again arbiter. Do explain how that 2400 defense after legion bonus makes a person with 4800 attack in a straight invade have a 67%(rounding) chance without my statement being true.

If you can't without making planet defense(actual) a weighted factor in the invasion defense equation then you should concede your point, and let mine stand.

Or do I need to set up an experiment showing this once and for all with screen shots to prove myself before people concede the point that I am correct here?


But 2400 vs 4800 should be exactly 67%. it's 4800/(2400*3)=4800/7200=67%
So where is the problem?
The question should be how was the 2400 arrived at, what did he have and what was his Legion bonus?
Author:  Serne [ Tue Mar 25, 2014 11:32 am ]
Post subject:  Re: plus % planet defences and invasion def question
Uy23e wrote:
Serne wrote:
Planet defense is used to calculate planet invasion defense. Such that 2400 defense on planet after legion bonus is equivalent to 7200 invasion defense. Should there be a invasion defense structure on the planet like a Lazuli Pylon it would then add 600 to that 7200 number resulting in total invasion defense of 7800. I hope this has enlightened you.

TL:DR The most powerful invasion defense only structure in game is still less effective than a single obviation barrier on the planet of a legionless player with an ion storm charge effect applied (that's 3020 invasion defense BTW)

Arbiter here -

That is not the case, 1200 Invasion Defense is the same as 1200 Defense.

end Arbiter -

Please try again arbiter. Do explain how that 2400 defense after legion bonus makes a person with 4800 attack in a straight invade have a 67%(rounding) chance without my statement being true.

If you can't without making planet defense(actual) a weighted factor in the invasion defense equation then you should concede your point, and let mine stand.

Or do I need to set up an experiment showing this once and for all with screen shots to prove myself before people concede the point that I am correct here?


But 2400 vs 4800 should be exactly 67%. it's 4800/(2400*3)=4800/7200=67%
So where is the problem?
The question should be how was the 2400 arrived at, what did he have and what was his Legion bonus?


It is the same single obviation barrier in a legion with 100% bonus from my previous example. Notice the 2400 real defense becomes 7200 in that equation? At that point it is Invasion Defense to which an invasion defense structure gets ADDED.

In 3 days I will have a screenshot showing what I have been saying for at this point over a year. So people can pull their heads out of their behinds.

But here's the math on the thing... (planet defense + planet attack)*3 + Invasion Defense only structures = #
Author:  Arbiter [ Tue Mar 25, 2014 1:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: plus % planet defences and invasion def question
Serne wrote:
(planet defense + planet attack)*3 + Invasion Defense only structures = #


False,

(planet defense + planet attack + Invasion Defense only structures) * 3 = #

I don't know why you think your 2400 defense vs 4800 attack wouldn't work out in this situation.

Note that the issue may be due to the fact that people refer to what you have symbolized with "#" as Invasion Defense, without regard for the fact that there is already something called Invasion Defense. I would call the "#" Invasion Protection, but I'm pretty sure I'm the only person here who believes in clear communication, so I don't expect other people will start doing that. This topic will probably remain a confusing muddle of misinformation due to poor communication skills.
Author:  KJReed [ Wed Mar 26, 2014 1:02 am ]
Post subject:  Re: plus % planet defences and invasion def question
Arbiter wrote:
Serne wrote:
(planet defense + planet attack)*3 + Invasion Defense only structures = #


False,

(planet defense + planet attack + Invasion Defense only structures) * 3 = #

I don't know why you think your 2400 defense vs 4800 attack wouldn't work out in this situation.

Note that the issue may be due to the fact that people refer to what you have symbolized with "#" as Invasion Defense, without regard for the fact that there is already something called Invasion Defense. I would call the "#" Invasion Protection, but I'm pretty sure I'm the only person here who believes in clear communication, so I don't expect other people will start doing that. This topic will probably remain a confusing muddle of misinformation due to poor communication skills.

this is true.
to be more accurate it is
(((planet def*planetdef multipliers) + (planetary attack * planetatk multipliers) + invasion def) *(1+legionbonus/100))*3 = Total Planetary Invasion Resistance

it basically uses the same logic as invasion attack, which is also not modified by things like crimson obelisk and ancient crystal foci, where after the base multipliers flat invasion attack is added before invasion attack multipliers are applied. (such as Decimators, Exotic Bio-Disruptor, and i do believe the konqul bonus)
Author:  not4use [ Thu Mar 27, 2014 12:36 am ]
Post subject:  Re: plus % planet defences and invasion def question
Either way, even if invasion defence does get the 3x multiplier it still sucks cause it doesn't get any of the defence % bonus that defence structures get.

And I think what Serne said about even the best invasion defence structure in the game is not as good as one obv. barrier is true still as well.

Just saying.... :P
Author:  Serne [ Thu Mar 27, 2014 3:34 am ]
Post subject:  Re: plus % planet defences and invasion def question
not4use wrote:
Either way, even if invasion defence does get the 3x multiplier it still sucks cause it doesn't get any of the defence % bonus that defence structures get.

And I think what Serne said about even the best invasion defence structure in the game is not as good as one obv. barrier is true still as well.

Just saying.... :P


Thank you. Now I just need to crack the whip on my friend with getting the planet (that I finally delivered after he won an auction months ago on IOU) set up right. The way he has it bricked up right now is going to make the difference completely negligible as far as overall chance goes in relation to % difference thanks to Dan's rounding.

On that note... does anyone have a quick link to a program I can use to make a video of what's on my screen? That I could upload to like... FB ... Youtube... some random site that almost nobody actually uses... or whatever for a link here?
Author:  Arbiter [ Thu Mar 27, 2014 3:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: plus % planet defences and invasion def question
Serne wrote:
not4use wrote:
Either way, even if invasion defence does get the 3x multiplier it still sucks cause it doesn't get any of the defence % bonus that defence structures get.

And I think what Serne said about even the best invasion defence structure in the game is not as good as one obv. barrier is true still as well.

Just saying.... :P


Thank you. Now I just need to crack the whip on my friend with getting the planet (that I finally delivered after he won an auction months ago on IOU) set up right. The way he has it bricked up right now is going to make the difference completely negligible as far as overall chance goes in relation to % difference thanks to Dan's rounding.

On that note... does anyone have a quick link to a program I can use to make a video of what's on my screen? That I could upload to like... FB ... Youtube... some random site that almost nobody actually uses... or whatever for a link here?


You can just take a screenshot, we already know the formula anyway.
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