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 Best low level race unlock 
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main reason, they are not top 5 for me is
you need to go Litheor to have acces to the ability,
and structures like Quantum accelerators, shrine of b'elna, tenebris relic, Chuhn trading post etc etc you can work on getting no matter what race/profession you are

so the real choice is

talith excavator = +1 artifact on 1 planet every 2 days (40 hours), with a 10% artifact production bonus to all your planets

Litheor Govenor/explorer/excavator = 1 size 1, all production 2, pop 900, cloak 130 every 2 days (40 hours), with bonus to scan, or a gamble that you might get lucky and get rings, moons ruins or some other nice permanent planet effects on your artifact planets, or +10% artifact bonus

or

Uldrinan Governor, = Uldri Power Node (Size:1, Research:1, Artifact:+5%), every 3 days (3* 20 = 60 hours), again with a increased chance to get planet effects,
and the posibility to also max the Uldrinan Henxicant (Size:30, Scan:50, Shields:100, Hull:120)
If this device is already installed on your ship, this will instead upgrade its stats by 30%, up to 300%. When fully upgraded, it provides a 2% scanning bonus.


at low rank, you are better off getting the +10% artifact bonus from excavator while you work on making x15 artifact planets with your talith ability
but once you have a good number of x15+ artifact planets, both Litheor and Uldrinan becomes interesting race choices to increase your production even futher on your special project planets

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Sun Oct 05, 2014 7:42 am
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DarkMar wrote:
main reason, they are not top 5 for me is
you need to go Litheor to have acces to the ability,
and structures like Quantum accelerators, shrine of b'elna, tenebris relic, Chuhn trading post etc etc you can work on getting no matter what race/profession you are

i look at it the inverse way, that is, what are the top buildings. then i meet the requirements to get those buildings on my planets. same with my ship. what are the top mods for what i want to do, then do what i need to do to get those mods installed.

the litheor deepsike probes (LDPs) are still in my top5 because they can be popped onto planets every 40 hours and there is no restriction on planet type, so i can target my top producers. lots of the ones you included in your pics are from legion missions, so will tend to be mutually exclusive, limiting their availability. the non.legion mission ones are more random and limited.

> quantum accelerators: dark badges reserved for magnetosphere chargers for the forseeable future
> chuhn trading post: requires trading hub ... so random planet with random richness
> perimeter station ... from seasonal daily mission so limited quantities ... LDP still beats it for production and pop
> adaptive spire ... arti +2 only on specific planet types, no cloak / pop
> triangulum sparkmatter ... from seasonal npc hunt so limited quantitites ... and given the drop rate ... not for low.levels

> shrine of b'elna ... from rank 100 vortov npc ... 100 legion missions and 10billion upkeep ... not for low.levels
> tenebris relic ... from 2d round of legion missions ... likely a legion avg rank 400 restriction ... not for low.levels
> genome modifier tubes ... from 2d round of legion missions ... likely a legion avg rank 400 restriction ... not for low.levels (cloak / pop beats invasion defense)
> roathir listening post ... from 2d round of legion missions ... likely a legion avg rank 400 restriction ... not for low.levels
> silthion t-plasma vesicle 2 ... from 2d round of legion missions ... this one only appears to have a legion avg rank 300 restriction ... but task 1 completion requirements before task 2 ?? ... again not for low.levels
> vorean habitat / biostasis ... double arti requires install as biologist profession ... and you can only install what you have on hand, so you have to stockpile first
> dormant tenebris relic ... from 2d round of legion missions ... likely a legion avg rank 400 restriction ... not for low.levels
> anti-grav repulsor ... from 2d round of legion missions ... a phase 2 legion mission ... limited opportunities for low.levels to acquire

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Sun Oct 05, 2014 3:19 pm
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the way I look at it is this...

talith ability
if you use it on a VL filler planet where you have 2 Adumbrate Station, 1 Warp Gate, 3 Hyperforge Fabricator = 39 base production
you get 0,25 * 2 * 39 = 19,5 AP's extra pr hour everytime you use the ability
and you might be able to get that up to around 50 base production = 25 AP's extra if the planet is massive/v massive or you replace one of the Hyperforge Fabricator with TC lab/NPC artifacts

Litheor ability
if you use it on a x15 planet, you get
2 * 6.75 * 2 = 27 AP's extra pr hour if that adds +2 extra base production to the planet, or 13.5 AP's extra if you replace a size 1 artifact 1 structure with the probes

not mutch difrence in production increase

so for me the main difrence is
as long as you have base production 35+ on planet, it doesnt realy matter what you are upgrading with the talith ability
for litheor, you need those x15+ artifact planets to realy take advantages of the ability, but if you have those it add's that nice +1800 pop, + 300 cloak as well for 2 probes

personaly I'm going for the Uldri Power Nodes (Size:1, Research:1, Artifact:+5%)
on a planet like this one
Image
that 5% bonus = 1520 * 0,05 = +76 extra AP's pr hour, for 3 days worth of Uldrinan Trade Credits

but again, to realy take advantages of that 5% bonus, you need planets already making at least 800 AP's pr hour
800 * 0,05 = 40 extra AP's pr hour
(40 * 2/3 = 26.6 extra AP's every 2 days, so 800 is the minimum where you get the same gain from Uldri as you would by using Talith or litheor abilityes)

but dont get me wrong, once I'm done putting Power Nodes on my 1000+ AP's pr hour planets
I'll proberly go back to Litheor and put probes on them as well, to increase the production even futher

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Sun Oct 05, 2014 5:23 pm
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Another thing to consider is how attractive improvements to planets make them to potential invaders (as a low lvl it is hard to cloak and foolish to brick). So we really have two options 1. Improve 1 planet at a time that you can devout significant resources toward cloaking (so called project planets), 2. Slightly improve a bunch of planets in order to lower losses/provide little incentive for planet theft. Given these two strategy's it seems to me that talth would be best for strategy 1, and lith would be best for strategy 2 (especially since the probes can't be extracted).


Sun Oct 05, 2014 7:02 pm
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Tirrk wrote:
Another thing to consider is how attractive improvements to planets make them to potential invaders (as a low lvl it is hard to cloak and foolish to brick). So we really have two options 1. Improve 1 planet at a time that you can devout significant resources toward cloaking (so called project planets), 2. Slightly improve a bunch of planets in order to lower losses/provide little incentive for planet theft. Given these two strategy's it seems to me that talth would be best for strategy 1, and lith would be best for strategy 2 (especially since the probes can't be extracted).

lol, the first litheor deepspike probes i got were ones that i stole ... of course, the planet they were on was decent too. but this comment from Tirrk probably reflects my philosophy. i can put the LDP's, bainar, PCV's etc. on as many planets deep as i can, while still upgrading project planets more slowly with tributes - i still have at least 5 project planets waiting for fab plant drops to cloak up before i melt / gaia them. i also prefer to even up all the resources on my project planets to make the best of the multi.resource artis. the biggest incentive that i see for option 1 is to talth up a planet that you do not intend to keep, but rather sell for ctp to save up for that infrequent natural dyson auction.

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Sun Oct 05, 2014 8:51 pm
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depends on the planet

on a planet like this one
Image

3 * Hyperforge Fabricator Artifact: 12
2 * Space Elevator Artifact: 1, Population: 50
1 * Warp Gate Mining: 1, Research: 1, Artifact: 1
1 * Quantum Hydro-Meliorator III Artifact: 1, Population: 300
1 * Processing Core Mining: 1, Artifact: 1
1 * Refining Lab Mining: 1, Research: 1
1 * Relay Tower Research: 1, Artifact: 1
1 * Silthion T-Plasma Vesicle Research: 3, Artifact: 1, Cloak: 300

talith ability would give you 43 * 0,25 * 2 = 21,5 extra AP's pr hour every time you use the ability

Litheor ability in this case would replace a size 1 artifact 1 structure (or a Hyperforge Fabricator if I add a lot more artifact structures )
so we are looking at 1 * 1.75 * 2 = 3.5 extra AP's pr hour - but what it realy would give you is more Cloak and Pop to help prevent it from getting stolen

but the main thing about a planet like this, you dont realy care if some one takes it from you
it easy to replase, and 5 to 6 of them still = 1K AP's pr hour

2 hits with talith ability would increase it to a 200 AP's pr hour filler planet - but still wouldnt make it a great target for high rank players
putting 2 Probes on it would basickly do nothing for it at all

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Sun Oct 05, 2014 9:17 pm
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DarkMar wrote:
depends on the planet

on a planet like this one
Image

holey moley. EVERY one of my arti planets (barring a few project planets with stealth screens) is better than that one. in fact, the next planet that i will abandon is still making 158 aph (excavator bonus included). if i scanned a planet like the one you showed, it would be purge fodder based on production alone.

you are using as an example, an EAB arti planet that has a 75% production bonus. i have 50 more planets at least mega rich arti, so a 300% production bonus, so my litheor ability will do me for another 4000 hours, or minimum 167 days. after that, i expect to hit up my maxed toxics / irradiateds with them as well.

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Sun Oct 05, 2014 10:03 pm
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DarkMar wrote:
depends on the planet

on a planet like this one
Image

3 * Hyperforge Fabricator Artifact: 12
2 * Space Elevator Artifact: 1, Population: 50
1 * Warp Gate Mining: 1, Research: 1, Artifact: 1
1 * Quantum Hydro-Meliorator III Artifact: 1, Population: 300
1 * Processing Core Mining: 1, Artifact: 1
1 * Refining Lab Mining: 1, Research: 1
1 * Relay Tower Research: 1, Artifact: 1
1 * Silthion T-Plasma Vesicle Research: 3, Artifact: 1, Cloak: 300

talith ability would give you 43 * 0,25 * 2 = 21,5 extra AP's pr hour every time you use the ability

Litheor ability in this case would replace a size 1 artifact 1 structure (or a Hyperforge Fabricator if I add a lot more artifact structures )
so we are looking at 1 * 1.75 * 2 = 3.5 extra AP's pr hour - but what it realy would give you is more Cloak and Pop to help prevent it from getting stolen

but the main thing about a planet like this, you dont realy care if some one takes it from you
it easy to replase, and 5 to 6 of them still = 1K AP's pr hour

2 hits with talith ability would increase it to a 200 AP's pr hour filler planet - but still wouldnt make it a great target for high rank players
putting 2 Probes on it would basickly do nothing for it at all

That makes no sense at all.
There is no reason to ever up that planets resources.
Should only be used on bigger planets that have more artifact output.
There would also be no reason to put probes on the planet.
If you don't have bigger planets you should get a vm gas for talth, and if you don't have richer planets you have no good reason to be litheor

And as you basically pointed out. Litheor adds more artifact per hour than talth when used on 15x plus planets. This doesn't even account for the added pop cloak res and mining.

For a high rank/anyone with a large amount of maxed arti planets Litheor increases ap/h faster.

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Sun Oct 05, 2014 10:06 pm
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DarkMar wrote:
depends on the planet

on a planet like this one
Image


Burn it, burn it with cleansing fire


Sun Oct 05, 2014 10:16 pm
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senatorhung is right I was mainly thinking of spreading risk around. Hadn't thought of selling the resulting planets from talth (and saving). I really like this idea though as I really want to rift planets with more than 22x arti.


Sun Oct 05, 2014 11:04 pm
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you dont get it :)

then let me show you a few sad exampels of planets players are actualy trying to defend....
Image
and we are not talking low rank players here, most of these are owned by rank 1000+ players

becorse it better to have a few bad planets making 150 to 300 AP's pr hour then 100+ empty planet slots that generate 0 production


why is this planet interesting
Image

it interesting, becourse with the talith ability when it comes to production gain, it doesnt realy matter if you use the ability on a x3 VL terra planet or a crap planet like the Artifact: Extremely Abundant Massive Oceanic
if you have 43 base production on both planets, you will get presisly +21,5 extra AP's pr hour every time you use the ability no matter witch one of them you use it on

that gives you 2 posible uses for your talith ability....

1. make special project x22 planets......

personaly I can easily pick up enougth Terraforming Device and tributes to take the planets I max cloak to x15/x15/x15
so dont realy need the ability for that.....

2. use the ability to increase production on filler planets, and old recearch planets you no longer need
Image

sure, you can pay 5 GP's to abandon them or hope someone steal them if you drop cloak and defence
personaly I just prefere to to convert them into something usefull


if you prefere to make x15 projects with your talith ability, sure do so
if someone scans that they will try to steal it, and you have limited number of cloak % structures
improve a crappy masive oceanic, from Artifact: Extremely Abundant to Artifact: Extremely Rich and it stil isnt realy a target most players will bother to steal as long as theire isnt any special artifacts on it

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Mon Oct 06, 2014 1:41 am
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Just as an aside. LDP also gives 150 cloak, per item. So 300 for the matching pair, multiply that by % structures and legion bonuses. Cloak being the dominant and useful feature to keep anything worth building up. Ergo (not the arti) having probes does the following:

1) pop increase--deter low ranks, give you some hope of catching a high rank if you;re online before planet gets slurped
2) +2 to EVERYTHING... so not only do I get arti (nom nom nom) but i can also support my spendthrift ways by covering mining and research all in the same place
3) Cloak- can't praise enough a 1 space drop that gives decent cloak

Why build a nice planet only to have it stolen THEN cloaked. Trust me, I'm a journeyman at thieving such wares. My compatriots in legion as well. In fact it's a running joke when we literally watch planets talth to max without good def or cloak then become our free thefts.

My two cents.

I would also necro tree's old addage that talth is the slow ranker's paradise. You could likely steal, beg, borrow, or buy the planets to drop the probes on versus spending a month at a time or more to work up a planet to profit level.

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Mon Oct 06, 2014 2:08 am
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Quick question. How much cloak does it take to safely protect a planet? And I have seen planets I would not take with lots of barriers lol


Mon Oct 06, 2014 2:49 am
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Tirrk wrote:
Quick question. How much cloak does it take to safely protect a planet? And I have seen planets I would not take with lots of barriers lol

http://galaxylegion.com/wiki/index.php/Scan_Blitz

and i agree that the enemy planets that DarkMar cited do suck balls. but the planets that i have making 158 aph have zippo defenses ... the ones making more aph have ... more defenses. and i have only one open planet slot at the moment.

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Mon Oct 06, 2014 2:57 am
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Thanks I thought info on the wiki might have been out of date


Mon Oct 06, 2014 3:28 am
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Darkmar...Im just curious...why do you have any planets producing less than 200 AP/h at your rank? You dont look like the type to rank your ship into oblivion, but you seem far enough into the game to be able to push a filler planet to its limit. Heck I can pull 200 AP/h from a VL VR.

And the intersting thing about talth is you can definitely spread it out like that. Yes I agree. But on the other hand, you cant do that in the long. YOu have too many crap planets at high ranks, you waste too many credits on planet slots and actually slow your gains because you wont have enough slots to take all those nice planets legion alerted from time to time. Also, those projects you talk about, thats because they arent made properly. CLoak should ALWAYS come first. That way, theres no fear whatsoever of losing the planet unless its crit hacked. If Im going to devote that much time to a project, idc what it makes as I build it up, i care about the end result, thats the whole reason I built it. Therefore, cloak up til its done.

The way I see it:
Start out as talth and max out your projects, Switch to Litheor for the probes to add the cloak/def/pop/prod benefits, and finally uldri for max effect of the +% mods (also because uldri is daily, youll probably unlock after talth anyways. And stricter e requirements than litheor so....)

The other path I see is: Go for uldri first, then sell the uldri market mods for profit to build ctp for 15x planets. Then go Litheor after youve built way enough and have spare uldri creds. This way you skip talth and can instead get around to it at a later time at your leisure. Con: Since uldri and litheor are dailies, this strategy will take much longer to start up at first

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Mon Oct 06, 2014 3:43 am
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TrinityThree wrote:
Darkmar...Im just curious...why do you have any planets producing less than 200 AP/h at your rank? You dont look like the type to rank your ship into oblivion, but you seem far enough into the game to be able to push a filler planet to its limit. Heck I can pull 200 AP/h from a VL VR.

And the intersting thing about talth is you can definitely spread it out like that. Yes I agree. But on the other hand, you cant do that in the long. YOu have too many crap planets at high ranks, you waste too many credits on planet slots and actually slow your gains because you wont have enough slots to take all those nice planets legion alerted from time to time. Also, those projects you talk about, thats because they arent made properly. CLoak should ALWAYS come first. That way, theres no fear whatsoever of losing the planet unless its crit hacked. If Im going to devote that much time to a project, idc what it makes as I build it up, i care about the end result, thats the whole reason I built it. Therefore, cloak up til its done.

The way I see it:
Start out as talth and max out your projects, Switch to Litheor for the probes to add the cloak/def/pop/prod benefits, and finally uldri for max effect of the +% mods (also because uldri is daily, youll probably unlock after talth anyways. And stricter e requirements than litheor so....)

The other path I see is: Go for uldri first, then sell the uldri market mods for profit to build ctp for 15x planets. Then go Litheor after youve built way enough and have spare uldri creds. This way you skip talth and can instead get around to it at a later time at your leisure. Con: Since uldri and litheor are dailies, this strategy will take much longer to start up at first


depends on how you look at it...

most of my planets do make 200+ AP's pr hour or 250+ mixed production, but some of them doesnt

those are mostly planets...

I have stolen for the arifacts on them, I could move to my special projects planets
planets I colonized/invaded to max my Solynia, Technician Elite/Apparitious II, Bane
old planets I colonized 4+ years ago
planets I havent gotten around to putting on pure production
or
planets with special planet effects, I'm keeping cloaked until I'm ready to make a project out of them


most of my M occeanic planets look like these
Image

with a setup like this

3 * Hyperforge Fabricator Artifact: 12
+
2 * Adumbrate Station Research: 1, Artifact: 1, Cloak: 200
1 * Hypergate Mining: 2, Research: 2, Artifact: 2
1 * Processing Core Mining: 1, Artifact: 1
1 * Refining Lab Mining: 1, Research: 1
1 * Relay Tower Research: 1, Artifact: 1
1 * Captured T.O. Harvester IV Mining: 2, Artifact: 1, Population: 1000
1 * DM79 Datacenter Research: 6
(or some other easy to replace planet artifacts depending on what production scores the have in recearch/mining)
(or what ever artifacts the last owner was nice enougth to put on them, that cant be moved are isnt realy worth moving)

= around 43 to 50 base AP production from structures + some mining/recearh if the planet have the scores for it

some of those can still use 1 or 2 hits from the talith ability without becomming great targets = +20 to 25 extra AP's every time I use that ability
but would never bother to put litheor probes on any of them - I save that for x15+ planets or planets I need to max cloak before I upgrade them

also, have around 30 free planet slots, and credit cost from invading planets isnt realy a huge problem for me
so getting rid of them, would just be a huge wast of GP's
and we have 3 NPC seasons comming up, where I'll proberly gain 80 ranks = 20 new planet slots

as I see it, having 100+ unfilled planet slots is a lot worse, then filling them with planets like that
100 planets like those still gives you around 20K AP's pr hour, you dont realy need to worry about upgrading or defending
and can easily be replace if you lose them


and incase you are wondering about this one
Image

it used to be a recearch planet, I colonized or stole 2 to 3 yeras ago when I still needed recearch, proberly used to make 250 to 350 recearch pr houre, but when I finished the recearch tree instaed of spending 5 GP's to get rid of it, I switched it to AP production instead and just left it like that
and most players have a few planets like that one, just sitting in theire planet list

the point here isnt realy where or not, it should be purged.....
but that even on a crap planet like that one Talith ability will still give you 20 to 25 extra AP production pr hour every time you use the ability
to get the same from the Litheor or uldrin ability, you will need a x10 to x15 artifact planet (litheor) or a planet already making 800+ AP's pr hour (uldrin)

if you have those planets... sure Litheor / uldrin is a lot better
if not, go Talith or kill a lot of NPC to make them first - before you go Litheor / uldrin and start using those abilityes

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Mon Oct 06, 2014 8:59 am
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Ah. I'll share the builds I used to use and had access to. Its a little more difficult for me now, but I still manage 90-95% of the same production level post-reset. My typical Massive build:

2x Hyperforge Fabricator Artifact: 24
Hypergate Mining: 2, Artifact: 2, Research: 2
2x Space Elevator Artifact: 1, Population: 50
Relay Tower Research: 1, Artifact: 1
Processing Core Mining: 1, Artifact: 1
2x Barrier Nexus Artifact: 1, Defense: 300, Defense: 20%
Galactic Concord Station II Mining: 2, Artifact: 2, Defense: 20%
HyperSensor Satellite Research: 2, Artifact: 2
2x Adumbrate Station Research: 1, Artifact: 1, Cloak: 200
Polychoron Vault Mining Storage: 1000, Artifact Storage: 1000, Research Storage: 1000
Isolation Bureau Mining: 2, Research: 2, Artifact: 2, Cloak: 400
2x Litheor Deep-Phase Probes Mining: 2, Research: 2, Artifact: 2, Population: 900, Cloak: 150
2 random LM 1:1 AP artis
Heist Dispatch Station Mining: 2, Artifact: 2, Attack: 300, Attack: 10%
Argent Consulate Artifact:2, Research:2, Population:+40%
Galakis Transport Mining: 1, Research: 1, Artifact: 1, Mining Storage: 400, Artifact Storage: 400, Research Storage: 400
Domain Walkert Attack: 600, Defense: 600
1 Filler 1:1 AP...hydromeliorators, antimatter drills, biolab, etc.
_______________________________
52 AP units -> 260 AP/h non-excavator on a M ER. 291.72 AP/h with Solynia + Excavator.
The same build on that EA would give 182 AP/h non-exc, 204.204 with Solynia + exc.

But then I realize this all depends on your access to the semi-limited artifacts...In the end, you may always have to mix and match.
The Phase Probes also depend on how fast you rank and open new slots. I didn't exactly autorank as much back then, about 1 rank a day was enough for Litheor to keep pace and put probes on all my planets. The only really debateable thing in the build was the availability of galakis transports, and how it wasnt hard to get 1 LM 1:1 AP arti, but it took a while to get 2 per planet. In that case, I put an ob barrier instead to remind myself the planet was incomplete.

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Mon Oct 06, 2014 7:31 pm
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