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 Rings>Large Moons? 
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Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:30 pm
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Just wondering which is better planetary rings or large moons? I have been assuming rings are better but 20 space is pretty good too. If it depends on the planet (size/richness), what is the crossover point? I am especially interested in regards to the invincible planets (as if/when I get them I might take the time to have an effect on them).


Wed Sep 17, 2014 6:40 pm
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Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:46 pm
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Because of a lack of size 1: arti 2 or better items in the game, rings are better. If you would fill all the planet space with a 1:>1 ratio it would be different but so far I haven't seen anyone do that without using too many +24s.


Wed Sep 17, 2014 7:36 pm
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Joined: Tue Jun 26, 2012 5:43 am
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Rings.

Even if every arti were with a 1:2 ratio, rings and moons will have the same affect (almost), except you will need to put more artifact on a planet for the same result.

The rings will improve the most effecient strutures, whilst the 20% extra space will be for lesser efficient structures.

There's technically only one possibility where moons can be better than moons, and it would be so specific that it isn't even worth mentioning.

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Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:20 pm
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it actually depends more on the amount of space you need to defend the planet that anything else.
if 0 space such as with invincible/mission planets, rings will put out more since their 20% boost is being used on a more efficient set of planet artifacts.
If however you are having to dedicate a decent portion of your planet space to cloak/defense, then there is a crossover point where large moons are better.
Determining the exact crossover point would be a case by case basis depending on def/cloak you are aiming to build, and planet artis that are available to you.

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Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:21 pm
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Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:30 pm
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Thanks guys that is good to know.


Wed Sep 17, 2014 10:47 pm
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Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 6:17 pm
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For your invincible planets I would say Large moons. Based on the HUGE # of 1.5 to 1 and 2 to 1 arti structures that are already out, and the growing # with each season, rings will be outpaced. Ask around, there are several threads...the best IMO is from ODrgaon regarding loading up a planet to max arti. PRolly some good stuff added even since his last update.

For day to day planets...cloak them, best case scenario. No amount of defense will help you against the majority of the people who post here, let alone in the game. If you have to go defesne, best of luck.

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Thu Sep 18, 2014 12:30 am
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Joined: Sun Feb 19, 2012 9:46 pm
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Reed exactly correct, I was thinking an invincible planet and based my answer only on that.


Thu Sep 18, 2014 12:31 am
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juiceman wrote:
For your invincible planets I would say Large moons. Based on the HUGE # of 1.5 to 1 and 2 to 1 arti structures that are already out, and the growing # with each season, rings will be outpaced.


Other way around. If you are able to maintain the exact arti:space ratio for the whole planet, Rings and Large Moons produce the exact same amount, but on an invincible with every space producing arti, it takes less of those nice artis and easier to reach a high arti:space ratio with less space on the rings.
Large Moons on an invincible will *at best* be even with rings and most times fall slightly short

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Thu Sep 18, 2014 1:19 am
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Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:17 pm
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Rings are better for invicibles. Rings make every mod 20% better, while LM lets you put 20% more mods. Those 20% more mods arent typically as good as the first 100% you laid down excluding the LM space bonus.

For Moons to be as good as rings, the extra 20% more space has to be filled with mods that are just as efficient as the original 100% space occupied. If there are any better mods, then they wouldve been stuck on first in the original 100% space and not placed afterwards in the extra 20% space. This way, it is impossible for a pure prod planet with moons to outpace rings. Rings are always better, or in the rare case, equal.


Thu Sep 18, 2014 3:48 am
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Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:16 am
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Assuming I did the math right and it is possible I am missing some of the newer modules. Both planets below have 2x +24 AP on them.

MC w LM = 97 spaces: Mining 54, Artifact 151, Research 58

MC w Rings = 81 spaces: Mining 42, Artifact 133, Research 43

The above numbers include all of the perm % artifact boost buildings but we won't include them for now.

37x = 24.5 AP/production point.

LM: 151 x 24.5 = 3,699.5 AP/hour
Rings: 133 x 24.5 x 20% = 3,910.2 AP/hour
Rings: 210.7 AP/hour more

The more % buffs you get, the more difference there will be.

Hoveroid = 5%
LM: 151 x 24.5 x 5% = 3,884.5 AP/hour
Rings: 133 x 24.5 x 20% x 5% = 4,105.7 AP/hour
Rings: 221.21 AP/hour more


Hoveroid + Vara:
LM: 151 x 24.5 x 5% x 4% = 4,039.85 AP/hour
Rings: 133 x 24.5 x 20% x 5% x 4% = 4,269.94 AP/hour
Rings: 230.09 AP/hour more


Thu Sep 18, 2014 5:52 pm
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ben,

Good deal. Appreciate you providing numbers behind the stats, very helpful.

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Thu Sep 18, 2014 10:35 pm
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Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:04 am
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generally speaking, rings are better for invic planets and:

on a C planet with 100% legion bonus:
minimal space cloaked planets(planet that have no structure that is used for +cloak alone, only +cloak%, passive and production ones you'd use anyway that happens to have cloak) that are undefended favors ring, as the space required is minimal

They are about even on optimized cloaked planet, meaning a max passive(3700ish, not going the uber way) and no researched cloak structure(or, ofc, structure with a worse cloak/space ratio) and undefended otherwise.

Moon tend to be better if you wish to wall it OR have to use researched cloak structure for the max cloaking.

Also, the larger the planet is, the better ring is, because assuming the same amount of space is used for the defense stuff, bigger planet means smaller % of space. So on MC, the "even" becomes "ring better" and undefended max cloak planet with researched structures become, instead, the new even. Whereas on VM or smaller, the "even" becomes "moon better"anything lower and the space required. On the other hand, lower legion bonus makes defending/cloaking planet more space demanding, making moon the better choice.

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Fri Sep 19, 2014 10:42 pm
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Joined: Fri Aug 31, 2012 5:30 pm
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Hey Ben I really liked seeing the math. My understanding of rings is a lot higher now. And Ghznl you said what truly convinced me in that even if

there are a ton of good modules available it can be assumed that the least good of them would be on the moons, and it would be unlikely that they

would outperform the 20% production boost to the better structures.

As far a cloaking planets goes what number should be shot for (including legion bonuses)?


Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:31 pm
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Joined: Fri Jun 25, 2010 1:16 am
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ODragon wrote:
MC w LM = 97 spaces: Mining 54, Artifact 151, Research 58
MC w Rings = 81 spaces: Mining 42, Artifact 133, Research 43

Anyone actually getting these on their planet? I've already figured mining will be higher, forgot about one of the Cerulean LM items as well as the buffed Elios Solar Drill.

Anyone getting higher more than a point or two higher? (Odds are most people don't have the 1 or 2 arcrift towers I included in the calculation).


Fri Sep 19, 2014 11:35 pm
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Joined: Thu Oct 18, 2012 11:17 pm
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28k-29k is about the max repeatable scan atm. So somewhere in the 29-30k category will typically make it unscannable. This excludes the protogrids, which means youd need 33-34k cloak to block those.


Sun Sep 21, 2014 1:09 am
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