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Formula for the affect of defense on your ship?
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Author:  Kurhah [ Fri May 04, 2012 8:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Formula for the affect of defense on your ship?

I was wondering if there is a formula for how defense changes how much you are damaged when attacked or attacking. I hope you understand what I am saying. I know the damage cap on a ship is decks divided by two, but by how much does defense decrease it?

Author:  Darth Flagitious [ Fri May 04, 2012 9:09 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Formula for the affect of defense on your ship?

Wiki Equations wrote:
Combat Formula Approximation
Damage per shot = tanh( attack*(random(0.6 to 1.666)) / (defense * 5) ) * damagecap
damagecap = 2.5 * npcrank ; for players, damagecap = 0.5 * decks in most cases.
The tanh() function is almost linear up to 0.40, therefore if your attack ~= npcdefense , you will do about 0.20 * 2.5 = 0.50 * npcrank (your rank in the case of matched npcs). If your attack > 2 * npcdefense , you will do about npcrank in damage.
To hit around the damagecap on npcs, you need around 10 * npcdefense (~96.4% of cap).
The "attack randomization" is not linear, but a large data sample indicates the lower multiplier is 0.6 and the upper is the inverse, 1/0.6 = 1.666, and most of that range is linear. The shape of the randomization appears to be a truncated arctanh() function. The average effective attack multiplier is about 1.10.



That's the long math-speak version. Short version is you (or they) need 5 points of additional attack to balance out 1 additional point of defense for most of the damage range. Due to the nature of the tanh function, the closer you get to hitting for damage cap, the higher the attack vs defense ratio needs to be.

Author:  Kurhah [ Fri May 04, 2012 11:39 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Formula for the affect of defense on your ship?

Ok thanks

Author:  Fabulon [ Sat May 05, 2012 4:46 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Formula for the affect of defense on your ship?

Thanks darth

this is the best explanation of how this works that i have seen

Author:  Darth Flagitious [ Sat May 05, 2012 4:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Formula for the affect of defense on your ship?

Deleted because sometimes I am an over-thinking moron.... :?

Author:  Wolfy Minion [ Sat May 05, 2012 6:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Formula for the affect of defense on your ship?

Darth Flagitious wrote:
I'd also like to point out that it SEEMS that the damage equation for base combat is a derivative of that with a factor of 10x somewhere. Recently TU battled a base that had roughly the same att/def as my ship and it was consistently doing about 10x the damage to me that I was doing to it.

I'm thinking that it may be { DPS = tanh( attack * (random(0.6 to 1.666)) / (defense * 5) ) * ( damagecap / 10 ) } when attacking a base.


what is your ship size? ~5200? if so then your damage cap is ~2600
Level 5 base damage cap is 260 that's the factor of 10

Author:  Uy23e [ Sat May 05, 2012 6:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Formula for the affect of defense on your ship?

Darth Flagitious wrote:
That's the long math-speak version. Short version is you (or they) need 5 points of additional attack to balance out 1 additional point of defense for most of the damage range. Due to the nature of the tanh function, the closer you get to hitting for damage cap, the higher the attack vs defense ratio needs to be.


That's a misunderstanding of the formula XD
For example, 1000 atk vs 400 def, it takes exactly 2.5 atk to balance out 1 pt of defense increase

The real short version is: Unless the ratio between atk and def is very big, a 1% increase in def will pretty much translate to 1% to 1.2% decrease in damage recieved.
It takes 3 times as much attack as the defense(from 2 different ship ofc) to make further attack go into notable "diminishing return".
And this formula is true forever and ever toward the other end(that is to say, long as attack is less than 3 times def, 1% increase in def means 1%-1.2% decrease in dmg, in fact the bigger the def is compartively speaking, the closer it becomes 1% exactly)

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