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Max Efficient Decks Based on (Scan + Cloaking)
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Author:  Ludis [ Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Max Efficient Decks Based on (Scan + Cloaking)
Total Decks for All Scan Modules
Continuum Analyzer - Mark III x5 = 480
Co-Align Signal Processor x4 = 60
Continuum Parser x4 = 120
Cybernetic Link Interface
(200% upgrade)1 x1 = 30
Datastream Compiler x4 = 64
Exo-Temporal Translator x4 = 40
Genetarr Transmitter -
Mark II x4 = 40
Gravimetric Flume x3 = 54
Lepus Widecaster x2 = 60
Omni-Field Regulator x3 = 84
Prejor Beacon Sensor x2 = 20
Sha'din Hypergrid Core x4 = 56
Stryll Locator Eye x2 = 40
Stryll Transponder x2 = 20
Voliir Modulator Mark II x3 = 30
Zortah's Interface Jack v.2 (Upgrade) x3 = 48
Tetra-Seek Targeter x3 = 60
Decryption Senary-Frame Upgrade x4 = 40
Composite Ray - Type S x4 = 42
Gravidynamic Isolator x4 = 60
Litheor Data Interface x3 = 45
TitanProxy x3 = 120
T-Plasma Dynamo II x4 = 88
Merged Datanode x1 = 21
Darmos Champions Seal x1 = 35

Total Scan Decks = 1757

Total Decks for All Cloak Modules
Inverse Flux Jammer - Mark III x2 = 112
Dimensional Mask - Mark III x2 104
Bio-Signature Scrambler x2 = 22
CipherBot 2.0 x3= 30
Coalition Database x2 = 32
Kronyn Anomaly Engine x4 = 40
Phase Interceptor Drive x4 = 60
Sha'din Security Terminal - Type N x4 = 80
Triaxial Array - Mark II x3 = 36
Zolazin Jammer x2 = 20
Leviathan Rift-Emitter x4 = 42
Modulated Xecti Disruptor x4 = 60
Frame of Bane x2 = 44
Stryll Confinement Chamber x4 = 40
Carjean Data Node x1 = 25
Temporal Containment Shell Cloak x1 = 25

Total Cloak Decks = 772

Efficient Deck Space = 2549

(This is for endgame purposes and lower upkeep, excluding relays and non-efficient, rusting, shelf life modules.)
(For those who want to have lower upkeep in the endgame and fight with only scans, cloaking modules with a large crew.)
Author:  Tree7304 [ Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Max Efficient Decks Based on (Scan + Cloaking)
You are missing a lot of things.
Examples
Darmos Drone
T-Plasma Dynamo which also now has the upgrade to T-Plasma Dynamo II
Temporal Containment Shell
Author:  Ludis [ Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Max Efficient Decks Based on (Scan + Cloaking)
Tree7304 wrote:
You are missing a lot of things.
Examples
Darmos Drone
T-Plasma Dynamo which also now has the upgrade to T-Plasma Dynamo II
Temporal Containment Shell


Thanks. I'll edit that out right now. I don't add allies by the way.

I don't know about the Temporal Containment Shell. What does it do?
Author:  Uy23e [ Mon Jul 28, 2014 10:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Max Efficient Decks Based on (Scan + Cloaking)
How much deck would max invasion attack take?
For every other purpose, attack have more or less a max useful value, but max inv attack will never hurt. Considering this includes all the attack mods, it should be quite a bit, thou probably not more than scan+cloak. (obviously you would switch between the two builds based on need, so it's not at same time)
Author:  Ludis [ Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Max Efficient Decks Based on (Scan + Cloaking)
Uy23e wrote:
How much deck would max invasion attack take?
For every other purpose, attack have more or less a max useful value, but max inv attack will never hurt. Considering this includes all the attack mods, it should be quite a bit, thou probably not more than scan+cloak. (obviously you would switch between the two builds based on need, so it's not at same time)


Invasion attack does not matter at all since pure attack from tactical officers is more efficient in the endgame and overshadows the smallest boost it gives.

Attack mods are pointless due to high amounts of tactical officers.

Switching is not a problem as you'd be holding onto these modules without having to switch anymore. It's like being and LSB, but with only scans and cloakings and lower upkeep and a buttload of crew.
Author:  Tree7304 [ Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Max Efficient Decks Based on (Scan + Cloaking)
Temporal Containment Shell Cloak +140
(40% Upgrade)
I believe it goes to 200% and it gives you an extra 25 actions for your TM use

Fair point about the Darmos Drone, as of now it takes space but not sure what happens when it turns into an ally.
Author:  Ludis [ Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:26 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Max Efficient Decks Based on (Scan + Cloaking)
Tree7304 wrote:
Temporal Containment Shell Cloak +140
(40% Upgrade)
I believe it goes to 200% and it gives you an extra 25 actions for your TM use

Fair point about the Darmos Drone, as of now it takes space but not sure what happens when it turns into an ally.


How much decks does the temporal containment shell cloak use up?
Author:  Deigobene [ Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Max Efficient Decks Based on (Scan + Cloaking)
Ludis wrote:
Total Decks for All Scan Modules
Continuum Analyzer - Mark III x4 = 480

Small typo, deck size is right, but you install 5 not 4.

Temporal Containment Shell is size: 25
Author:  Ludis [ Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:44 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Max Efficient Decks Based on (Scan + Cloaking)
Thanks Deigo
Author:  Deigobene [ Mon Jul 28, 2014 11:47 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Max Efficient Decks Based on (Scan + Cloaking)
No worries mate, love your plan to work out the totals required for easy reference for people.
Author:  Trinton [ Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Max Efficient Decks Based on (Scan + Cloaking)
Is the emphasis here just on scan and cloaking or on what to put on if you put nothing else on? If it's the later then I would contend the % mods like Velox Thruster should be added.
Author:  Bobtheunclean [ Tue Jul 29, 2014 1:02 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Max Efficient Decks Based on (Scan + Cloaking)
If the aim is to have a strong ship by keeping deck space to an absolute minimum i would recommend taking cloak out of your calculations.

The reason being is if your deck space is this low you really gain no benefit from hiding. Hacking is covered by scan value only and the additional cloak is only really useful for hiding the planet you are guarding and that is only ever one planet at a time.

Best bet for a strong ship is primarily just add scan preferable at the ratio of 5 scan for every 1 space used and then if space allows add in the bonus % items like cipherbot and Armoury. Even energy relays become completely optional if you have enough engineers.

Just my 2c. I do like your list though quite a few items on there i had forgotten about.
Author:  Ludis [ Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Max Efficient Decks Based on (Scan + Cloaking)
Bobtheunclean wrote:
If the aim is to have a strong ship by keeping deck space to an absolute minimum i would recommend taking cloak out of your calculations.

The reason being is if your deck space is this low you really gain no benefit from hiding. Hacking is covered by scan value only and the additional cloak is only really useful for hiding the planet you are guarding and that is only ever one planet at a time.

Best bet for a strong ship is primarily just add scan preferable at the ratio of 5 scan for every 1 space used and then if space allows add in the bonus % items like cipherbot and Armoury. Even energy relays become completely optional if you have enough engineers.

Just my 2c. I do like your list though quite a few items on there i had forgotten about.


You actually do gain some benefit from cloaking when reducing the chance of receiving a critical hit on your ship and also hiding a project planet from people with high scans.

A strong ship can have whatever it wants on it if their crew is strong enough and their artifact production is efficient enough for their rank.

The protean armories and even the ones upgraded to arsenals are not efficient in the endgame as they just increase the bonuses from a successful raid and not raid chance.
Author:  ODragon [ Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Max Efficient Decks Based on (Scan + Cloaking)
Ludis wrote:
The protean armories and even the ones upgraded to arsenals are not efficient in the endgame as they just increase the bonuses from a successful raid and not raid chance.

Actually you are wrong. They increase raid chance; especially nice, they increase raid chance on bases.
Author:  Ludis [ Tue Jul 29, 2014 2:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Max Efficient Decks Based on (Scan + Cloaking)
ODragon wrote:
Ludis wrote:
The protean armories and even the ones upgraded to arsenals are not efficient in the endgame as they just increase the bonuses from a successful raid and not raid chance.

Actually you are wrong. They increase raid chance; especially nice, they increase raid chance on bases.


I guess proteans are an exception, but to a person that already deals a lot of damage, has a lot of energy and aims to be the top hitters will get 100% on raid regardless.

It'll definitely come in handy for competitive top hitters when attacking a base with other legions and people who deal less damage, but to a person who gets top hitter very often because of ship strength will not need the extra chance.

I'm only missing a part about raiding bases, but for pvping raids, it is just a bonus from a successful raid.
Author:  ODragon [ Tue Jul 29, 2014 3:08 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Max Efficient Decks Based on (Scan + Cloaking)
Ludis wrote:
I guess proteans are an exception, but to a person that already deals a lot of damage, has a lot of energy and aims to be the top hitters will get 100% on raid regardless.

It'll definitely come in handy for competitive top hitters when attacking a base with other legions and people who deal less damage, but to a person who gets top hitter very often because of ship strength will not need the extra chance.


On high activity base attacks, doesn't always matter how good or strong you are. Sometimes it comes down to internet speed (or reaction time).

On a level 6 base, top 12 hitters with 3 Arsenals are guaranteed a 100% chance. That is important. Plus, it is continually improving your chance on all bases. When I'm on my phone, I do crappy hitting (response time issues) but the 3 arsenals help a decent amount. I don't think anyone should count them out.

Ludis wrote:
I'm only missing a part about raiding bases, but for pvping raids, it is just a bonus from a successful raid.

I'd never heard this... This might be worth its own discussion...
Author:  Ludis [ Tue Jul 29, 2014 8:13 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Max Efficient Decks Based on (Scan + Cloaking)
Well, I hope more people look at your post in this thread here because I totally agree with you on this, since I forgot to take into consideration of people's internet speeds and reaction times. However, results may still vary under many other circumstances other than internet speeds and reaction times. I just hope that people will still deal enough damage for that decent boost in raid chance with those protean arsenals.
Author:  Uy23e [ Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:09 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Max Efficient Decks Based on (Scan + Cloaking)
Ludis wrote:
Uy23e wrote:
How much deck would max invasion attack take?
For every other purpose, attack have more or less a max useful value, but max inv attack will never hurt. Considering this includes all the attack mods, it should be quite a bit, thou probably not more than scan+cloak. (obviously you would switch between the two builds based on need, so it's not at same time)


Invasion attack does not matter at all since pure attack from tactical officers is more efficient in the endgame and overshadows the smallest boost it gives.

Attack mods are pointless due to high amounts of tactical officers.

Switching is not a problem as you'd be holding onto these modules without having to switch anymore. It's like being and LSB, but with only scans and cloakings and lower upkeep and a buttload of crew.


Invasion attack matters because any increase is valuable, even if it amounts to 1% total(aside from the direct % increase, which is a given), because you can't compensate for it in any other way. Granted, given the 2549 decks to install the most efficient attack/invasion attack modules, I'm not entirely sure the left over, if any, would be significant. However, the overall sum would be significant.
On the other hand, base/npc/player/etc atk doesn't matter that at all, because you can compensate with more energy expenditure. At worst you'd lose a bit on base damage ranking due to time issue and get less kill per rank due to the extra clicks but that's it. It's not significant.

Trinton wrote:
Is the emphasis here just on scan and cloaking or on what to put on if you put nothing else on? If it's the later then I would contend the % mods like Velox Thruster should be added.

Well, you could switch things. I'd put on the % boosters for respective task when I'm doing that task. But only scan/cloak needs to be on when you are sitting idle, in order to protect from crit hack mostly.
% hull/def boosters would come in handy if you actually care about being disabled, but other than that they don't really do much. At most they might be a bit extra useful when you are guarding a planet
Author:  Ludis [ Wed Jul 30, 2014 6:30 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Max Efficient Decks Based on (Scan + Cloaking)
Uy23e wrote:
Invasion attack matters because any increase is valuable, even if it amounts to 1% total(aside from the direct % increase, which is a given), because you can't compensate for it in any other way. Granted, given the 2549 decks to install the most efficient attack/invasion attack modules, I'm not entirely sure the left over, if any, would be significant. However, the overall sum would be significant.
On the other hand, base/npc/player/etc atk doesn't matter that at all, because you can compensate with more energy expenditure. At worst you'd lose a bit on base damage ranking due to time issue and get less kill per rank due to the extra clicks but that's it. It's not significant.


On certain planet attacks and invasions a person may be unlucky and unfortunately have to deal with the active owner of the planet and get Tactical Inner Bypassed to the point they have no weapons and defenses left. Some people just will not give you increased bonuses from your % weapons and defenses and drop you wide open before you can reequip and just be tactical inner bypassed again.

Pure power without the need of weapons and defenses are the endgame. A person who has more tactical officers than you and a lot of engineers from high artifacti production per hour can rip anyone up easily without any modules at all in the endgame with lower credits needed to repair and lower credits needed for upkeep.
Author:  Sharnhorst [ Wed Jul 30, 2014 8:40 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Max Efficient Decks Based on (Scan + Cloaking)
Tree7304 wrote:
Temporal Containment Shell Cloak +140
(40% Upgrade)
I believe it goes to 200% and it gives you an extra 25 actions for your TM use

Fair point about the Darmos Drone, as of now it takes space but not sure what happens when it turns into an ally.


You can turn it into an ally, and then do the mission again to get the module if you really like it...(and upgrade it up to 150% so it does not turn into a 2nd ally :P).

But as mentioned, cloak is pretty much useless if your decks are low and you have maxed out your scan. And there are other things that are nice to have too, like the geminis (no point on keeping low decks for PvP if you are going to remove these), and things that increase attack by a percentage (e.g. Carjean Scatterlauncher, Chromatic Cannon 2.0, etc).
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