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 Freeze Ranking is Insanely Counter Productive! 
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Joined: Mon Oct 15, 2012 6:51 am
Posts: 304
Post Re: Freeze Ranking is Insanely Counter Productive!
xmoonxlitxwalkx wrote:
maxer wrote:
Freeze ranking slows the increase in artifact production. Everything that people list here as positives of freeze ranking can be done better with more production.


While this is true because you aren't actively NPCing, in a way it is false too. If I decide I'm going to freeze or not, 90% of the time it's because I have 4-5 planet slots open that I want to fill. I think that increases artifact production too, no?


It should not take too long to fill 4-5 planet slots. Grab anything that produces 150-200 and keep ranking.


Thu Aug 21, 2014 2:35 am
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Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:31 am
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Post Re: Freeze Ranking is Insanely Counter Productive!
Theres also something called watching the GTC and turning over huge profits. It is almost as time consuming as NPCing when you note down 15-20 auctions at any given time all ending within 5-10 mins of each other and you need to snipe them all (or decide which ones to drop and which ones to pursue when things go sour - I only had 2 bidding slots). I may not NPC like the high rankers do, but I can easily haul a Tril credits profit every week I choose to actually follow the market on there. Thats exactly how I originally sustained myself. Im pretty sure 4 Tril credits in profits per month on top of my regular income of arti shipments, minerals, research contracts, elites, bases and whatnot comes in comparison pretty competitively to what you get NPCing? 4 Tril is just short of enough to buy 2 basic VM 15x AP planets. Equals out to about a little more than a terraformer a day. Sure thats not equivalent to a mighty NPCer, but that does pretty much match your consistent mid-rank NPCer (600-1000) who ranks about once a day, killing 500 or so NPCs?

With talth, that means I churn out 3 15x AP planets per month even if I was just being a sitting duck exp-wise. I do actually rank, but its more within the realm of every 3-4 days, since Im either sending out a ton of recruitment msgs, making everything I can in the CTL, doing LMs or hacking/raiding everything within sight. Those are all energy intensive tasks - so I am actually being productive if your referring specifically to my own ship. In the end though, this is all just to see how strong of a ship I can make by day 656, where my ship must be rank 200; no higher or lower. It was a personal goal to TBPs benchmark 2 years ago.

If you mean contribution-to-legion-wise, I already outlined the alternative methods I use to contribute to the legion above. I see that juiceman understands that point of view I provide. Hopefully that paints a better picture of what exactly I do when Im playing the game.

Because I was largely inactive in the first year of play do to RL issues, my main activity was just hacking. The one proud accomplishment I have from that is my entire 2600 hacks to get the Black Hat medal were done without TMs, save a few zeroings from alerts or people asking for it. In the last 6 months, I have brought my ship from being just under 10k AP/h to over 30k AP/h, where at the 10k AP/h time-frame, I had already converted all my funds into AP/h (due to my lackluster online activity). This meant I brought myself back to the top of the market game from nothing. I started it again with less than 1 Bil. All I had was a donation of 100 Ion Repulsors from a legionmate as a joke. We still talk about it to this day sometimes about how all the crazy stuff started. Currently I have 50k ctp to my name to still spend, and 1.7 Tril Credits + choice artifacts I can once again profit off of.

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Thu Aug 21, 2014 5:02 am
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Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:51 pm
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Post Re: Freeze Ranking is Insanely Counter Productive!
TrinityThree wrote:
Theres also something called watching the GTC and turning over huge profits. It is almost as time consuming as NPCing when you note down 15-20 auctions at any given time all ending within 5-10 mins of each other and you need to snipe them all (or decide which ones to drop and which ones to pursue when things go sour - I only had 2 bidding slots). I may not NPC like the high rankers do, but I can easily haul a Tril credits profit every week I choose to actually follow the market on there. Thats exactly how I originally sustained myself. Im pretty sure 4 Tril credits in profits per month on top of my regular income of arti shipments, minerals, research contracts, elites, bases and whatnot comes in comparison pretty competitively to what you get NPCing? 4 Tril is just short of enough to buy 2 basic VM 15x AP planets. Equals out to about a little more than a terraformer a day. Sure thats not equivalent to a mighty NPCer, but that does pretty much match your consistent mid-rank NPCer (600-1000) who ranks about once a day, killing 500 or so NPCs?

With talth, that means I churn out 3 15x AP planets per month even if I was just being a sitting duck exp-wise. I do actually rank, but its more within the realm of every 3-4 days, since Im either sending out a ton of recruitment msgs, making everything I can in the CTL, doing LMs or hacking/raiding everything within sight. Those are all energy intensive tasks - so I am actually being productive if your referring specifically to my own ship. In the end though, this is all just to see how strong of a ship I can make by day 656, where my ship must be rank 200; no higher or lower. It was a personal goal to TBPs benchmark 2 years ago.

If you mean contribution-to-legion-wise, I already outlined the alternative methods I use to contribute to the legion above. I see that juiceman understands that point of view I provide. Hopefully that paints a better picture of what exactly I do when Im playing the game.

Because I was largely inactive in the first year of play do to RL issues, my main activity was just hacking. The one proud accomplishment I have from that is my entire 2600 hacks to get the Black Hat medal were done without TMs, save a few zeroings from alerts or people asking for it. In the last 6 months, I have brought my ship from being just under 10k AP/h to over 30k AP/h, where at the 10k AP/h time-frame, I had already converted all my funds into AP/h (due to my lackluster online activity). This meant I brought myself back to the top of the market game from nothing. I started it again with less than 1 Bil. All I had was a donation of 100 Ion Repulsors from a legionmate as a joke. We still talk about it to this day sometimes about how all the crazy stuff started. Currently I have 50k ctp to my name to still spend, and 1.7 Tril Credits + choice artifacts I can once again profit off of.


A Tril credits profit for an entire week watching the GTC is close to nothing; plus you're only getting credits instead of pure CTP (I've never been able to buy a 15x arti planet with credits; if you know someone interested please let me know). Early this year I spent 8 hours fighting a base and I have still 17 Tril credits leftover from 6 months ago (and I'm invading a planet each day, at 300b + per invasion). Plus, 6 months after doing it, I have saved enough data terminals to get me another 20 - 30 Tril credits when I find 8 spare hours to lock a base.

And again, you can be Taltherian and get you 3 maxed arti a month, while at the same time do an hour or 2 of NPCing a day and get you 2-3 maxed arti planets a week... I've been doing this since rank 600 or so (still on it, but slower now after 2200... only one maxed a week). And at the same time you can also get dark badges and fold generators to cloak them up (still, only NPCing for 1 or 2 hours a day, sometimes nothing at all).

And a special mention about this, which is where I think this all started:
TrinityThree wrote:
In the end though, this is all just to see how strong of a ship I can make by day 656, where my ship must be rank 200; no higher or lower. It was a personal goal to TBPs benchmark 2 years ago.


These benchmarks that people so oftent post here, they are all wrong... using rank to measure your strenght is just silly, considering there are no rank caps on this game and that ranking up doesn't really have any negative or positive impact on your ship (compared to e.g. a huge damage cap or the amount of rank points you get daily from arti shipments).

If you had used time played instead of rank to calculate your benchmarks, your ship would be much stronger by now... I think the benchmarks need to be changed urgently or people are going to continue making this mistake :(

The only 2 calculations where rank should be used are:
- Damage cap (to know how many decks you can have)
- Energy:rank ratio (so you know how much energy you need to add to keep autoranking... 12:1 is a good ratio, 22:1 if you want to autorank from base fights)

And maybe the planet cap... but if you are doing it correctly, that becomes irrelevant (having empty planet slots doesn't hurt, as long as you are terraforming 2 or 3 planets a week and fully cloaking them).


Thu Aug 21, 2014 9:45 am
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Joined: Thu Mar 27, 2014 1:31 am
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Post Re: Freeze Ranking is Insanely Counter Productive!
Edit: Lets put up a new category then? AP/days. Im at 54x for that, after 554 days. No Rifts, no buffs, one cloaked project, two getting uplifted.

Yes but I doubt most people NPC as much as you do and make 2-3 maxed arti planets a week. Nor do I believe someone could make a ship capable of pounding a base for 8 hours to generate tens of trillions of credits with a ship thats just about 540 days old. 8 hours to pound a base is a lot to ask from someone.

All my planets I make this way are cloaked up, it isnt hard to get others to do it and its cheap. Im not exactly aiming to grow my ship as fast as possible. Its kind of a concept of seeing how quickly you can grow when you have restrictions thrown on you, ie a kind of challenge.

Personally, think my ship growth has been pretty satisfactory in the 6 months Ive really started to work on it. Please give me an example of someone who went from rank 100 to a ship capable of blasting NPCs away making 2-3 maxed arti planets a week in 180 days. Theres only so much AP you can collect in that time. No matter how much AP you have, there is a theoretical maximum of HourlyProd*24*DaysPlayed. If your just rank 100 at that time you decide to grow your ship, with a nice 10k AP/h (but hardly impressive from just a AP magnitude standpoint, independent of rank), I dont exactly see how your ship could become a base smasher cranking out all those credits, seemingly with all those dataterminals....that dont even show up until...I dont remember what rank, but it was nowhere near rank 100. Probably several hundred ranks higher.

Also, Im pretty sure most midranks wouldnt treat making 1 Tril pure profit on top of their regular gains per week as "close to nothing". You do realise all those credits can be spent on anything in the GTC right? Or to buy artifacts and sell them back out on groups? Its extremely easy to convert Cr back to ctp. If I make 1 Tril profit a week, of course this implies I invest in other things in credits, because the only way to make profit in GTC is invest credits into artifacts. If I can buy artifacts with my Cr, why cant you see that I can also buy CTP with my Cr?

Another point. 2-3 planets = 2.5 planets a week.
1 planet = ~15 terraformers.
15*2.5 = 37.5 terraformers per week
Weighted spawn is 1:500
37.5*500 = 18750 NPCs a week
18750/7days = 2679 NPCs/day

You do realize if no elites appear, 2679 NPCs/day is clearing your BT 334 times? I dont think everybody has the time for that. Sure maybe once in a while on a really crap day. But Id never be able to do that every single day to crank out that many terraformers. Youve also been at the peak game forever for NPCing, with easy damage caps, and an ever diluted NPC pool since rank 1k+. Id have to deal with a crap NPC pool, crap dmg caps, and quite frankly, I dont have time yet to clear my BT in long sittings 334 times a day.

Oh and yes I know your past the 2200 mark, and I know you have to deal with the DMC. Quite frankly that isnt relevant to this discussion anymore because unless I bought GP specifically to do that, its impossible for me to rank to 2200 in 180 days.

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Thu Aug 21, 2014 11:10 am
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Joined: Wed Jan 04, 2012 5:51 pm
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Post Re: Freeze Ranking is Insanely Counter Productive!
TrinityThree wrote:
Edit: Lets put up a new category then? AP/days. Im at 54x for that, after 554 days. No Rifts, no buffs, one cloaked project, two getting uplifted.

Yes but I doubt most people NPC as much as you do and make 2-3 maxed arti planets a week. Nor do I believe someone could make a ship capable of pounding a base for 8 hours to generate tens of trillions of credits with a ship thats just about 540 days old. 8 hours to pound a base is a lot to ask from someone.

All my planets I make this way are cloaked up, it isnt hard to get others to do it and its cheap. Im not exactly aiming to grow my ship as fast as possible. Its kind of a concept of seeing how quickly you can grow when you have restrictions thrown on you, ie a kind of challenge.

Personally, think my ship growth has been pretty satisfactory in the 6 months Ive really started to work on it. Please give me an example of someone who went from rank 100 to a ship capable of blasting NPCs away making 2-3 maxed arti planets a week in 180 days. Theres only so much AP you can collect in that time. No matter how much AP you have, there is a theoretical maximum of HourlyProd*24*DaysPlayed. If your just rank 100 at that time you decide to grow your ship, with a nice 10k AP/h (but hardly impressive from just a AP magnitude standpoint, independent of rank), I dont exactly see how your ship could become a base smasher cranking out all those credits, seemingly with all those dataterminals....that dont even show up until...I dont remember what rank, but it was nowhere near rank 100. Probably several hundred ranks higher.

Also, Im pretty sure most midranks wouldnt treat making 1 Tril pure profit on top of their regular gains per week as "close to nothing". You do realise all those credits can be spent on anything in the GTC right? Or to buy artifacts and sell them back out on groups? Its extremely easy to convert Cr back to ctp. If I make 1 Tril profit a week, of course this implies I invest in other things in credits, because the only way to make profit in GTC is invest credits into artifacts. If I can buy artifacts with my Cr, why cant you see that I can also buy CTP with my Cr?

Another point. 2-3 planets = 2.5 planets a week.
1 planet = ~15 terraformers.
15*2.5 = 37.5 terraformers per week
Weighted spawn is 1:500
37.5*500 = 18750 NPCs a week
18750/7days = 2679 NPCs/day

You do realize if no elites appear, 2679 NPCs/day is clearing your BT 334 times? I dont think everybody has the time for that. Sure maybe once in a while on a really crap day. But Id never be able to do that every single day to crank out that many terraformers. Youve also been at the peak game forever for NPCing, with easy damage caps, and an ever diluted NPC pool since rank 1k+. Id have to deal with a crap NPC pool, crap dmg caps, and quite frankly, I dont have time yet to clear my BT in long sittings 334 times a day.

Oh and yes I know your past the 2200 mark, and I know you have to deal with the DMC. Quite frankly that isnt relevant to this discussion anymore because unless I bought GP specifically to do that, its impossible for me to rank to 2200 in 180 days.


My point was, that if you have time to spend on this game, there are better ways to spend it than browsing the GTC / trading / slow ranking. How many hours you spend a day on that? (if you have time you could ever do both... I personally don't have time to trade or browse the GTC, I prefer NPCing for when I do)

And I'm at 978 days played; at 554 days, I had 150k aph and was rank 2138 (I have kept track of my stats since I joined Ni back in July 2012).... and I was already smashing bases with my legion by then :)

I'm at 320x on the new category you suggested (313k aph / 978)


Thu Aug 21, 2014 12:18 pm
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Joined: Fri Jul 18, 2014 5:13 am
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Post Re: Freeze Ranking is Insanely Counter Productive!
Just a point of curiosity, all these slow rankers who are are so invested in strength to rank ratios,
why are they involved in PvP and raiding and going for record breaking stats...
Those activities wont aid anyone in gaining strength.

Just playing devils advocate, I think it simply boils down to each of our own unique play styles and what suits us.

Ill personally never understand Senators, Annas, or anyone else's play style of hoarding terraformers until they can max cloak every last project.
Ill also never understand going for hacking and raiding medals/leaderboards as a solo goal. I get my raids and hacks as i get disables.


Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:13 am
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Joined: Sun Aug 03, 2014 6:17 pm
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Post Re: Freeze Ranking is Insanely Counter Productive!
Azalin,

My playstyle is like what you described. I get raids and hacks as I go. I don't multi and don't worry over raping false stats. Totally agree with your comment about everyone having a similar their own way and going with it. To each their own. Whatever floats the virtual boat seems good. Big plus +1..or maybe the vodka is setting in..either way.

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Fri Aug 22, 2014 1:38 am
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Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 4:30 am
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Post Re: Freeze Ranking is Insanely Counter Productive!
Azalin159 wrote:
Just a point of curiosity, all these slow rankers who are are so invested in strength to rank ratios,
why are they involved in PvP and raiding and going for record breaking stats...
Those activities wont aid anyone in gaining strength.

Just playing devils advocate, I think it simply boils down to each of our own unique play styles and what suits us.

Ill personally never understand Senators, Annas, or anyone else's play style of hoarding terraformers until they can max cloak every last project.
Ill also never understand going for hacking and raiding medals/leaderboards as a solo goal. I get my raids and hacks as i get disables.


I do slow rank, but I'm mainly a PvPer. I do have strength to rank ratios, but I mostly do it to reach other goals. I.e. (like I mentioned), planet slots, hacking, or one big one, lack of null fuses. Though I'm not so serious I avoid legion missions or stuff like that. I like to plan my ranks while I'm at a low rank, so I can get as many reds as I can while there are still easy targets. Though if I'm low on nulls, I'll slow down and work on "lower XP" activities. I.e scan blitzs, hacking, restructurizing planets, and planning what I want to do the next few ranks.


Fri Aug 22, 2014 4:12 am
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