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 Mission Dyson starter planet help. - Answered 
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Joined: Tue Jan 06, 2015 6:30 pm
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Post Mission Dyson starter planet help. - Answered
I searched the forum for advice, but can't find much for what I'm looking.
I found 1 post saying rings are better because there are not enough good arti:space structures to make the extra space of large moons worthy, but that post is very old. Has this opinion change yet?

I would like to know which effect is better for a mission dyson, Rings or Large Moons?

Thanks for all the help


Last edited by SafferImpi on Thu May 14, 2015 9:55 am, edited 1 time in total.



Wed May 13, 2015 7:14 am
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Post Re: Mission Dyson starter planet help.
a mega.colossal planet with rings gives you 81 building space.

a mega.colossal planet with large moons gives you 97 building space.

so you have an extra 16 space to play with ... or 19.8% more space.

however, for either scenario, your most efficient artis will already be in the 81 spaces. so it is only less efficient artis that will be in the additional 16 space. can you get 20% more production out of those 16 spaces ? maybe eventually, if enough 2:1 or better arti per space structures come out ... but you will have to wait awhile for that to happen.


this is my listing of stuff that would give %arti or better than 1:1 arti:

%arti:
litheor transmutative locator
cognizant omniforge
intraphasic hoveroid
t.o. terrafounder
uldri power node
uldri crystal field
arcrift tower
shrine of b'elna

3:1 arti per space
bane psybeacon 4
auric lepus drone 4
auric lepus drone 3
bainar access a-node - prime

2:1 arti per space
orbital stabilizer (transfused)
silthion t-plasma vesicle II
bane psybeacon 3
litheor deep-phase probe
uldri recovery capsule 4
hypergate
chuhn trading post (trading)
cerulean hyperstation
aerlen rescue transport (aerlen)
scruuge cargo pad (calib)
active tenebris relic
elios solar drill (heliacal)
bane psybeacon 2
tejiar ally hq (scanned)
ryelis analyzer
alarri comm tower 3
raix refinery (w bunker)
vorean biostasis lab (biologist)
vorean habitat (biologist)
galactic concord station II
t.o. manufacturing core
uldri spacial marker 3
trellith comm relay
genome modifier tubes
lepus drone 3.0
galakis entry port
crimson rift aperture (rift)
quantum accelerator (arti) 100%
adaptive spire (arti)
perimeter station
auric lepus drone 2
lepus drone 2.0
bainar access a-node - advanced

1.5:1 arti per space
omnistream gateway
bane generator 3
bane generator 2
rikthar's war forge (arti)
quantum accelerator (arti) 50%
scruuge hoarding vault
scruuge hoarding vault II
scruuge hoarding vault III
scruuge hoarding vault IV

1.33:1 arti per space
hyperforge fabricator (energized x2)

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Wed May 13, 2015 7:36 am
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Post Re: Mission Dyson starter planet help.
senatorhung wrote:
%arti:
litheor transmutative locator
cognizant omniforge
intraphasic hoveroid
t.o. terrafounder
uldri power node
uldri crystal field
arcrift tower >> Important side note, that can only be built on a rift planet, as a heads up for OP and any others looking into this thread that may not know.
shrine of b'elna

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Wed May 13, 2015 9:41 am
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Post Re: Mission Dyson starter planet help.
elerian wrote:
senatorhung wrote:
%arti:
litheor transmutative locator
cognizant omniforge
intraphasic hoveroid
t.o. terrafounder
uldri power node
uldri crystal field
arcrift tower >> Important side note, that can only be built on a rift planet, as a heads up for OP and any others looking into this thread that may not know.
shrine of b'elna

a good point, but not relevant to the size / production concern of the OP. the chances of getting ALL of these on the same planet (plus all the others that would fit into the production categories that have yet to be released) is pretty much nil, so the point of the list is to cherry pick based on what you have access to, and calculate planet capacity accordingly.

the bane psybeacon and uldri artis can only be built on recently invaded planets. the omnistream gateway can only be built on invincible planets. the t.o. terrafounder has to be the first building built. a bunch of the others listed require special conditions in order to get the listed arti production (vorean, rift aperture, orbital stabilizer, chuhn, cargo pad, elios drill, tejiar ally, adaptive spire).

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Wed May 13, 2015 10:09 am
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Post Re: Mission Dyson starter planet help.
You forgot B'elna's Altar from the The Tenebris Discovery (Late Timeline) Task #3, Return The Artifact To The Bralkir Shrine. It gives +3% arti if you already have a Shrine of B'elna built on the planet. It also happens to give +2 AP and 300 cloak.

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Wed May 13, 2015 3:41 pm
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Post Re: Mission Dyson starter planet help.
Therefore, a planet with rings will be better than a planet with large moons?


Thu May 14, 2015 8:54 am
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Post Re: Mission Dyson starter planet help.
SafferImpi wrote:
Therefore, a planet with rings will be better than a planet with large moons?

for now and probably a few more years.

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Thu May 14, 2015 9:30 am
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Post Re: Mission Dyson starter planet help.
Thanks for all the info and help.


Thu May 14, 2015 9:54 am
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Post Re: Mission Dyson starter planet help. - Answered
Dan is bringing out more and more artis like the latest stryll bioresearch bay which gives +4 artifact, the darmos ability people forgot to mention...wouldn't Large moons now be better? You may have 20% more artifact with rings but since Dan is bringing out more and more new artis even the lutuma...i would think that Large moons Is better because you can swap more size 1 arti 1 with +2, +3, +4 or % artifacts...you can fill up a colossal and even MC with rings of +2 or better quicker than with LMs and with more and more artifacts coming out we are quite soon going to end up having more artifacts possible than we have space available. So the more space wins i would think. Especially if you add in all the % artifacts first...

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Thu Jan 21, 2016 7:47 am
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Post Re: Mission Dyson starter planet help. - Answered
It honestly depends on when you built the invincible planet.

If it's just as you built it, Rings is always better, because your best mods always get placed before your crappier mods. Your last 20% space worth of mods will never be 20% as good as your first set of mods you placed if you build a planet now since the initial mods you placed have higher efficiency. Therefore, the 20% production boost from rings on whats in the standard space will always be bigger than being able to place 20% more mods of at best equal quality to the already used 81 space. +% arts don't factor into this, because they should be built first anyways and nearly all non +% mods are worth destroying to replace with +% production when available. A +% prod art is only as good as the average production on the planet in units/space times the percent boost. Those 1:1 arts you speak of on a rings planet would also be removed to place the newer 2:1, 3:1 and 4:1 arts. You can't really run out of space persay, because as you said, there are 4:1 artis now. If you fill up the default 81 space (theoretically) with 3:1 arts and the 4:1 stryll bay, there is no way adding another 16 space in Large Moons can increase production more than rings, because there is only 1 4:1 mod in the game. Thus, the next 16 space at best can only be 3:1, while the +20% boost from rings has a higher boost because the average units/space in the first 81 spaces is higher than 3:1 (due to the single 4:1 mod).

Ie. You manage to fill the first 10 slots with 2-3:1 AP:space arts totalling 25 production. You fill the remaining 71 slots with 60 2:1 (120 production) and 11 1:1 arts (11 production) (I believe this is close to the current unit max or similar without using +% cloak or +% art/production mods), making a total of 156 units. So if you get Large Moons, you have to add 31 more units in 16 space to make it match rings (20% of 156 units is 31.2). Finding 16 more 2:1 arts is quite the feat, compared to the easy straight 20% bonus that would be equivalent if you got rings instead. And if you have a few 3:1 or better arts to add on, wouldn't you have added it in the original 81 space anyways if you had the arts earlier? In other words, even if you get more 3:1 arts later on, there's nothing stopping you from sticking the 3:1 art on a rings planet than a large moons planet even after youve used the 81 space, as you would willingly demolish anything below 3:1 which by definition *should* be placed within the first 81 space if you had it when the planet was built because it's better than what you would add and fit as *crappiest* set of arts that fall in the +20% space (sorting by best art to worse).

Now if you built the planet far in the past, it may actually end up better fairing in the long run (years down the road) with Large Moons. But this is aimed at your overall production and not the particular planet. This is because a lot of arts can't be extracted, while others can. So those with large moons will be able to put all the new mods on with little issue in sacrificing existing modules, while those with Rings instead will someday eventually reach the point where they can't place the newer mods without losing irreplaceable arts anymore. Of course, when this day comes is debateable, but I do not think it has come yet, nor will it come any time soon.

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Thu Jan 21, 2016 3:13 pm
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Post Re: Mission Dyson starter planet help. - Answered
Yeah actually we haven't gotten to the stage of being past available space with no +1 artis on there...But wouldn't it not hurt to prepare as a new player if they wanted to get a mission Dyson now to get one with Large moons? I have an MC rift with 89 spaces, (SM's) There are a max of 10 more +2 artis including a % arti from the darmos ability that i don't have yet, and then there are 2 +1 from LM's i don't have...so that's 10 there, atm i am maxed on space and i have a maxed hyperforge +24..And i have 4 +1 artis on there currently and a couple of size 2 +2 which i could eventually replace for size 1 +2 or more...Would it still be good for a new player to prepare so that they don't have to go through the mistakes we do? Dan is going to bring out more and more, we may not be there yet, but we aren't far off, it only takes Dan to release more from seasonals and a couple of mission chains, new ctl items, new LM's ect...with new content stacked up, it would not take long....

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Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:17 pm
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Post Re: Mission Dyson starter planet help. - Answered
Considering my rift has 89 spaces and a Colossal with Large moons has 90, and me only having 4 +1 artifacts and a Colossal with rings having less space...a Colossal with less space is going to fill up much more quickly of +2 artis or better leaving less room or no room later on for no other +2 or better. Isn't the idea for a newer player to do better than us? Because we played earlier and made mistakes, whereas the newer players can pick up on those mistakes and do better. Us older players who have our rifts before the terrafounders can't place those unless you sacrifice tons of limited artis...A planet that is well thought out and prepared imo is better than doing something an older player would do (use rings).

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Thu Jan 21, 2016 4:28 pm
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Post Re: Mission Dyson starter planet help. - Answered
Also someone who is new with their Mission Dyson can add a maxed hyperforge or two until more +2 artis come out to replace the space...

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Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:11 pm
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Post Re: Mission Dyson starter planet help. - Answered
I disagree vehemently. Lets put it this way, even if all the structures were 4:1 ap ones you'd have 324 ap production with rings compared to 388 ap with moons. But as rings increase 324 ap production by 20% you go up to 388.8 . So even if all structures provided the same ap:size ratio you'd be better off with rings

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Thu Jan 21, 2016 5:42 pm
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Post Re: Mission Dyson starter planet help. - Answered
smh

did this really need bumping from 7 months ago Zargor?


Thu Jan 21, 2016 6:02 pm
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Post Re: Mission Dyson starter planet help. - Answered
kirkeastment wrote:
did this really need bumping from 7 months ago Zargor?

if the follow.up posts are still on point .. better to bump an old topic than to start a new one so that people don't have to repeat themselves or link back to the more comprehensive topic.

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Thu Jan 21, 2016 10:34 pm
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Post Re: Mission Dyson starter planet help. - Answered
for invincibles - rings
for non-invincibles - moons


Fri Jan 22, 2016 8:14 am
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Post Re: Mission Dyson starter planet help. - Answered
As avatar mentioned, it also depends on how you want to defend the planet. Built properly, it shouldn't really make much of a difference. Incomplete builds with LM work better because the extra space for cloak/pop/def is quite valuable without impacting production. Mainly due to the static target protection you want vs being a -% total production on the planet. You use the same amount of space regardless to defend if it's LM or Rings, but losing X space on a rings planet to defend decreases production more than X space on an LM planet because on Rings, X space represents more of total %space occupied for protection and thus greater net loss in production since rings depends directly on total units, which is directly correlated to space used.

A completed project shouldn't matter as you'll only be deviating 3-5 spaces for protection type arts, generally leading to only a decrease of ~100 APH (same type of projects that should be making 2.5-3k aph) from the build for protection, ie the difference being slightly more than the boost provided by solynia. If we look at the impact this has on rings vs LM, 3-5 space corresponds to rings having 3.7-6.2% production loss vs LM having 3.1-5.2% production loss (difference of about 20 aph between a proper LM build vs Ring build where protection is required).

On the topic of +24s, I believe we have indeed reached the point where you can get more total AP units on a planet without using the single +24 that was considered the optimal strat over a year ago. I haven't actually checked yet, but I'm pretty sure all the new releases from seasonals, missions and LM drops have added more than 24 production worth for 18 space. However, to be in this situation requires you to be kid to late game to have all the artis available needed for this kind of build.

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Fri Jan 22, 2016 7:23 pm
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