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Alliance attack exploit.
http://galaxylegion.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=5&t=3770		 Page 1 of 3
Author:  Romah [ Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:18 am ]
Post subject:  Alliance attack exploit.
Hello.
We have been at war with a specific alliance. But there is an issue that unbalances the game by far.
We began defending some of our players as they suffered an attack. Soon it was escalated into full blown war.

When they began to loose, they switch sides to a stronger alliance to link us to them. This makes limiting alliance numbers and ranks utterly useless and allows for an unfair gameplay... There ought to be some sort of a penalty for switching alliances when it comes to war. Clearing targets from his alerts and warning us that they switched alliance on ours...

The reason why I bring this up, it is the 3rd alliance we came across that pulls that stunt...
We still fight and have fun though.. Please look at this issue Dan!
Author:  webguydan [ Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:38 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alliance attack exploit.
Thanks for the report. The issue here is that the alert penalty for leaving a legion is 12 hours whereas they are allowed to alert within 24 hours of an offensive action.
Author:  Obscura [ Fri Jan 14, 2011 5:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alliance attack exploit.
So you start something with the wrong group and got beat? There are many alliances that are now intertwined with each other. My legion is tied to two others, If one is attacked then we are all attacked. This has been a part of the game for some time now. I have been alerted to other big brother legions, but I am not going to complain about it, because the is a team game. As for picking the wrong fight it is something one should think about when starting an attack. If you cant handle the highest player in that group or their known allies, then don't pick the fight.

The 12 hours rule has made it not so easy to "abuse" the so called alert system. I understand that when it was 250 to 3 that is was unfair, but I think it is fair just where it is now with the 50 man legions. Please Dan don't change it.
Author:  FerrusManus [ Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:00 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alliance attack exploit.
Obscura wrote:
So you start something with the wrong group and got beat?


It didn't sound like they started it, and they were beating the group anyway.

Obscura wrote:
This has been a part of the game for some time now. I have been alerted to other big brother legions, but I am not going to complain about it, because the is a team game. As for picking the wrong fight it is something one should think about when starting an attack. If you cant handle the highest player in that group or their known allies, then don't pick the fight.


And, on top of that, it's not as though you can always know a group and all its allies anyway.

Obscura wrote:
I understand that when it was 250 to 3 that is was unfair, but I think it is fair just where it is now with the 50 man legions.


You're contradicting yourself. Yes, with the 50 man Legions it would be pretty fair, but when they can alert you to other Legions as well it becomes the "250 to 3" scenario again, making the 50 person limit not mean as much, exactly as Romah said.
Author:  Obscura [ Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alliance attack exploit.
FerrusManus wrote:
You're contradicting yourself. Yes, with the 50 man Legions it would be pretty fair, but when they can alert you to other Legions as well it becomes the "250 to 3" scenario again, making the 50 person limit not mean as much, exactly as Romah said.


So how would you propose dealing with a guy that is higher than any one you have that is farming your legion?
Author:  mojo311 [ Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:32 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alliance attack exploit.
Just stop all attacks on any one in that legion and let it go. Fall off the news tab. Or go and make friends with someone even larger on the forums or if you know them in game and see if you can't get that player to farm them for you.
Author:  FerrusManus [ Fri Jan 14, 2011 6:34 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alliance attack exploit.
Obscura wrote:
FerrusManus wrote:
You're contradicting yourself. Yes, with the 50 man Legions it would be pretty fair, but when they can alert you to other Legions as well it becomes the "250 to 3" scenario again, making the 50 person limit not mean as much, exactly as Romah said.


So how would you propose dealing with a guy that is higher than any one you have that is farming your legion?


That doesn't contradict what I said anyway.

To answer your apparently random question though, just don't keep retaliating, because if you don't he can't farm you.
Author:  Romah [ Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alliance attack exploit.
Well... There is no perfect system.
If someone higher rank farming you, well thats where a war game is a war game rule comes into play.
Its unbelievable how much trash talk you get from a legion that pulls this kind of a trick.
And then calls you "dishonorable" when you strike back defending your buddies.

The said legion had stats like deadly and savage. We decided to stay and fight with them. They have 50 members. We have roughly 25 active. About 5 who actually join in on the fun. (if even) Yet we still were doing quite well. Thats what I call a honorable and fair fight..

Coming across such issues about 3 times, it showed that issue is growing.
And personally, Obscura... I smell you use same cheap tactic to get some easy kills rather than to actually work for them :)
Author:  Obscura [ Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alliance attack exploit.
Romah wrote:
And personally, Obscura... I smell you use same cheap tactic to get some easy kills rather than to actually work for them :)

You obviously don't know me very well. Half the people on the kills leader board and raid board know I do indeed work for it.
Author:  Romah [ Fri Jan 14, 2011 7:49 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alliance attack exploit.
Well in that case hats off to you :)
You right and I dont know you.
Im forced to make my judgement based on your words you put down as i have..
Author:  zophah [ Fri Jan 14, 2011 8:42 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alliance attack exploit.
webguydan wrote:
Thanks for the report. The issue here is that the alert penalty for leaving a legion is 12 hours whereas they are allowed to alert within 24 hours of an offensive action.

Then I say the best option would be to increase the penalty duration to 24 hours.
Author:  razorxxx [ Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alliance attack exploit.
that is the most rediculous thing zopha that i have ever heard.If you did that then no one could alert at all and the big guys could farm alot easier.Why does all the changes have to benefit the big guys or those that farm? To have a group wide war one must be able to alert to their respective legions. dan i believe if you change this there will be alot of people quitting. I have seen three quit after the last alert time change. There was also some reports of multi accounts with evidence that was overlooked. I think that these legions that complain are trying to get the advantage. Please do not change this. it is too much change over and over and it gets tiresome. Let things stay as they are and see what happens.

There is no exploitations of this rule. It is being followed.
Author:  Brock Samson [ Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:23 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alliance attack exploit.
And then when you get attacked, and can't alert, and are farmed for a full day, because you were alerted in the enemy legion, and can't alert back, someone will gripe about that too, and pretty soon there will be to many penalties in the game to attack anyone, and where's the fun in that, this is a war game after all, and in wars there are always alliances, on both sides, and if your legion has none, that's your fault.
Best advice is to RUN AWAY.
Author:  William Murphy [ Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:35 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alliance attack exploit.
What i dont understand, is that people play a war game, and then Cry when they get their butts kicked. You know? i think you can STILL go play Bejeweled on Yahoogames, if you want something safer and less stress full ROMAH.

So what? In Example, You think cause Zimbabwe decided to attack the United States that the US wouldn't Kick their butts? Dont attack legions if you can look at the players in that legion and KNOW YOU'LL GET PWNED. A simple threat assessment takes all of less than 5 minutes.

Or maybe you think Dan is like the United Nations to cry to when you get in over your head? Dan doesnt deal in Legion Quarrels. He's here to outfit the game and make sure things are as fair as they can be. He's already imposed plenty of Fairness doctrine, but nothing as you know is ever perfect. Yes, your going to have less than Scrupulous people actively farming lower ranked players for easy kills. But thats life. it's survival of the fittest. If dont want to be farmed on the battletab, then make sure your always running traps.

Anytime you retaliate against anyone theres a chance that he can alert you to his legion. Some players will do this Even if your lower level than them so the rest of his Cronies can have a piece of you, ISN'T that RIGHT, BLKDRGN. Undertakers Incorperated is Notorious for this kind of behavior.

Whenever you retaliate you run this risk. So you need to decide if you can stand the heat, or if you need to stay outta the kitchen.
Author:  SpoonyJank [ Fri Jan 14, 2011 10:46 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alliance attack exploit.
People can't be expected to know every unlisted affiliation every time they attack someone. I don't really see anyone that disagrees with the original post that hasn't relied heavily on a big brother legion in the past. There really isn't any reason for limits on legion size when we can just jump ship and share enemies with a more powerful group. It is pretty much why legions were put in in the first place, to prevent this exact phenomena. It throws the concept of legions and level limits on the battle tab completely out of the window.
Author:  Obscura [ Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:05 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alliance attack exploit.
And yet Spoony your legion and it affiliates have done the same thing, and no I will not deny that my crowed has done it as well.
Author:  zophah [ Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:10 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alliance attack exploit.
razorxxx wrote:
that is the most rediculous thing zopha that i have ever heard.If you did that then no one could alert at all and the big guys could farm alot easier.Why does all the changes have to benefit the big guys or those that farm? To have a group wide war one must be able to alert to their respective legions. dan i believe if you change this there will be alot of people quitting. I have seen three quit after the last alert time change. There was also some reports of multi accounts with evidence that was overlooked. I think that these legions that complain are trying to get the advantage. Please do not change this. it is too much change over and over and it gets tiresome. Let things stay as they are and see what happens.

There is no exploitations of this rule. It is being followed.

I was saying that the cooldown time between leaving a legion and joining a new one would be 24 hours.
Author:  William Murphy [ Fri Jan 14, 2011 11:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Alliance attack exploit.
Good Point Baltar, but a 50 member limit to a legion is kind of a joke. Dan should have made it 100 members at least. And we all know that the legion list was only put into effect to bust up DoO in the first place. 50 ships per legion, in NAVY terms thats barely a fleet. The United States had more ships than that when we took on the Empire of Japan. Which before the incorporations of legions, you only received the legion bonus from 100 people anyway. Legions should have been 100 strong at least. 1 bonus for every active member. Else Dan needs to change the Name to Galaxy Squad.
Author:  SpoonyJank [ Sat Jan 15, 2011 1:33 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Alliance attack exploit.
I think it would be better to have a system for war/diplomacy instead of having multi-legions shuffle members just to make sure just one perpetrator gets absolutely sodomized. Plenty of legions have allies that are stronger than them but they aren't about to trade members to make sure a certain person is sufficiently picked on because they are actually separate entities with different rules and focus.
Author:  FerrusManus [ Sat Jan 15, 2011 4:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Alliance attack exploit.
William Murphy wrote:
Good Point Baltar, but a 50 member limit to a legion is kind of a joke. Dan should have made it 100 members at least. And we all know that the legion list was only put into effect to bust up DoO in the first place. 50 ships per legion, in NAVY terms thats barely a fleet. The United States had more ships than that when we took on the Empire of Japan. Which before the incorporations of legions, you only received the legion bonus from 100 people anyway. Legions should have been 100 strong at least. 1 bonus for every active member. Else Dan needs to change the Name to Galaxy Squad.


50 seems to be plenty to me; your only argument is how things work in real life, which is not this game.

William Murphy wrote:
So what? In Example, You think cause Zimbabwe decided to attack the United States that the US wouldn't Kick their butts? Dont attack legions if you can look at the players in that legion and KNOW YOU'LL GET PWNED. A simple threat assessment takes all of less than 5 minutes.


You don't know what's going on. Read posts before replying to them.

Brock Samson wrote:
And then when you get attacked, and can't alert, and are farmed for a full day, because you were alerted in the enemy legion, and can't alert back, someone will gripe about that too, and pretty soon there will be to many penalties in the game to attack anyone, and where's the fun in that, this is a war game after all, and in wars there are always alliances, on both sides, and if your legion has none, that's your fault.
Best advice is to RUN AWAY.


You only wouldn't be able to alert only if you went to a different Legion to try to alert, which would be stupid to do if you couldn't alert people for 24 hours.

I support the idea of increasing the time you have to wait to alert after joining a new Legion. You don't have to worry about high level people "farming" you, they can only see you as long as you make yourself alertable. Even better, this would make your arguments of "don't attack people who are way stronger than you" not stupid, because right now you wouldn't really know if they have friends in another Legion who are stronger.
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