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Research Tree Block?
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Author:  namalak [ Tue Sep 03, 2013 12:39 am ]
Post subject:  Research Tree Block?
I have spent over 250 MILLION research in the past few months, including 84 million today alone (as I spent my NPCing data terminals and clicked for 8 hours), and I have been unable to find a SINGLE CT Lab item.

The entire research tree is less than 179 million.

I have finished ENTIRE CT labs (multiples in fact) for FAR less.

Have I been cut off? This goes FAR beyond unlucky with the RNG.

I am INSANELY angry right now. Tell me why I should not be.
Author:  Darth Flagitious [ Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:07 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Research Tree Block?
Yep, it's one great big Dan-led conspiracy to make your life miserable enough for you to retire.

Wait... Didn't you already retire once or twice? May as well change your IGN to Favralak...
Author:  imrockerman [ Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Research Tree Block?
First off...Tell your fingers I'm sorry for their loss.
Secondly...It's either extremely extremely EXTREMELY bad luck (which I doubt)...OR, you've been spending too much time in the lab. No, probably not cut-off, but you've made the data confused or something (If that makes any sense). I'm trying to come up with any explanation other than the one everyone wants to use...What were your chances at the lab?
Author:  namalak [ Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Research Tree Block?
Darth Flagitious wrote:
Yep, it's one great big Dan-led conspiracy to make your life miserable enough for you to retire.

Wait... Didn't you already retire once or twice? May as well change your IGN to Favralak...


Maybe it is a Dan-led conspiracy, which is precisely why I posted this in the Issues & Support.

And yes, I am retiring. But unlike you, I build stuff instead of trying to break them down. I made several Imperiums and I am making them all that much better before I depart.

Only reason I stayed longer was because I was helping. You know. Helping. Check it out in the dictionary, I know it must be a foreign concept to you.

I apologize if I come across a bit harsh but you really need to get a bit more compassion for those who put effort in and do less nit-picky sniping. Makes you come across as a jerk.

And thanks imrockerman, I appreciate the constructive questions. The 250 million was a mixture of trying to get the last CT Lab discovery (pre-new items) and trying to get the 2 new lab items. Extremely difficult to get, sure... but when I used enough research finish the entire research tree 1 1/3 times, something should have clicked.
Author:  PLURVIOUS [ Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Research Tree Block?
It good to see more people agreeing with my long-held assertion that _something_ is wrong the PRNG in GL. May or may not be Dan's intention, but something is wrong for sure.
Author:  imrockerman [ Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:58 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Research Tree Block?
namalak wrote:
Maybe it is a Dan-led conspiracy, which is precisely why I posted this in the Issues & Support.

And yes, I am retiring. But unlike you, I build stuff instead of trying to break them down. I made several Imperiums and I am making them all that much better before I depart.

Only reason I stayed longer was because I was helping. You know. Helping. Check it out in the dictionary, I know it must be a foreign concept to you.

I apologize if I come across a bit harsh but you really need to get a bit more compassion for those who put effort in and do less nit-picky sniping. Makes you come across as a jerk.

And thanks imrockerman, I appreciate the constructive questions. The 250 million was a mixture of trying to get the last CT Lab discovery (pre-new items) and trying to get the 2 new lab items. Extremely difficult to get, sure... but when I used enough research finish the entire research tree 1 1/3 times, something should have clicked.


That would explain it...Well, it does say "Nearly Impossible," which probably makes it...You know...Nearly Impossible. But I agree, your chances shouldn't have been that low. If other legions can get it the same day it was released, I'm sure you should've been able to do it in a day as well. So, yep, I understand your anger and completely back you up on this one.

And PLURVION, I'd like to say the same, because I find commons, uncommons, even extremely rares, but I don't think in all my NPCing (Although it's not a lot), I have seen a single rare.
Author:  Darth Flagitious [ Tue Sep 03, 2013 3:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Research Tree Block?
Thing is Nam, it's not your personal RNG. The RNG is shared by EVERYONE who clicks something that requires a pseudo-random number. You spending 250M research points at, let's say, 36k per click in the lab is no different than a legion of 50 people clicking 139 times each. That's 5 millionish per person, and at 25k per hour, a little over 8 days each. As most legions with a near-impossible CT Lab can attest, that's not really all that uncommon. Actually, that kind of expenditure is likely to be the rule rather than the exception as you seem to think. A few discoveries back, TU spent WAY more than that amount on one item. If I recall correctly, it was the Concord Station, which for us was 36k per click.

Nit-picky sniping is my way of pointing out how ridiculously un-thought-out some people's complaints can be.
Author:  PaulHsiao [ Tue Sep 03, 2013 4:23 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Research Tree Block?
If it softens up the feeling a bit, we in CRA spent about 300m to find the Toxic plant. The Polaron Emitter did come a handful of million research points later, but all in all, a lot of RP. :D
It's just luck sometimes, whether it is good luck, really good luck *cough cough TU cough cough* bad luck, and extremely bad luck. Good luck to you and your CT Lab!
Author:  namalak [ Tue Sep 03, 2013 5:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Research Tree Block?
Darth Flagitious wrote:
Thing is Nam, it's not your personal RNG. The RNG is shared by EVERYONE who clicks something that requires a pseudo-random number. You spending 250M research points at, let's say, 36k per click in the lab is no different than a legion of 50 people clicking 139 times each. That's 5 millionish per person, and at 25k per hour, a little over 8 days each. As most legions with a near-impossible CT Lab can attest, that's not really all that uncommon. Actually, that kind of expenditure is likely to be the rule rather than the exception as you seem to think. A few discoveries back, TU spent WAY more than that amount on one item. If I recall correctly, it was the Concord Station, which for us was 36k per click.

Nit-picky sniping is my way of pointing out how ridiculously un-thought-out some people's complaints can be.


I, personally, have filled 2 legions with all 19 discoveries and the lion's share of 2 other legions' CT Lab discoveries. And I have done this with LESS than 250 million. Close to 80 discoveries. And now, with what I have put in, I have not found a single damn thing. And when someone puts in 8 straight hours of clicking for the single sole purpose of getting lab items for his training legion, in addition to the dozens and dozens of hours NPCing to get data terminals, and you walk away with nothing but a freakin' sore wrist, I like to think of that as a well-thought-out complaint.
Author:  TruthTheProphet [ Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:22 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Research Tree Block?
namalak wrote:
I have spent over 250 MILLION research in the past few months, including 84 million today along (as I spent my NPCing data terminals and clicked for 8 hours), and I have been unable to find a SINGLE CT Lab item.

The entire research tree is less than 179 million.

I have finished ENTIRE CT labs (multiples in fact) for FAR less.

Have I been cut off? This goes FAR beyond unlucky with the RNG.

I am INSANELY angry right now. Tell me why I should not be.


I can't find anything either, but I've not spent anything like 250 million I've only spent a few 100k
Author:  KxG Ryoko [ Tue Sep 03, 2013 9:52 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Research Tree Block?
namalak wrote:
I have spent over 250 MILLION research in the past few months, including 84 million today along (as I spent my NPCing data terminals and clicked for 8 hours), and I have been unable to find a SINGLE CT Lab item.

The entire research tree is less than 179 million.

I have finished ENTIRE CT labs (multiples in fact) for FAR less.

Have I been cut off? This goes FAR beyond unlucky with the RNG.

I am INSANELY angry right now. Tell me why I should not be.


Yes yes, totally a conspiracy~ Dan's disabled your /RIGHT/ to get a million CT lab discoveries before you quit.

I'm sorry but seriously Nam, quit your whining. You chose to do all this, you got unlucky. That's all. Although I personally would find it far more amusing if the RNG had gained sentience just to mess with you~
Author:  Darth Flagitious [ Tue Sep 03, 2013 10:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Research Tree Block?
namalak wrote:
Darth Flagitious wrote:
Thing is Nam, it's not your personal RNG. The RNG is shared by EVERYONE who clicks something that requires a pseudo-random number. You spending 250M research points at, let's say, 36k per click in the lab is no different than a legion of 50 people clicking 139 times each. That's 5 millionish per person, and at 25k per hour, a little over 8 days each. As most legions with a near-impossible CT Lab can attest, that's not really all that uncommon. Actually, that kind of expenditure is likely to be the rule rather than the exception as you seem to think. A few discoveries back, TU spent WAY more than that amount on one item. If I recall correctly, it was the Concord Station, which for us was 36k per click.

Nit-picky sniping is my way of pointing out how ridiculously un-thought-out some people's complaints can be.


I, personally, have filled 2 legions with all 19 discoveries and the lion's share of 2 other legions' CT Lab discoveries. And I have done this with LESS than 250 million. Close to 80 discoveries. And now, with what I have put in, I have not found a single damn thing. And when someone puts in 8 straight hours of clicking for the single sole purpose of getting lab items for his training legion, in addition to the dozens and dozens of hours NPCing to get data terminals, and you walk away with nothing but a freakin' sore wrist, I like to think of that as a well-thought-out complaint.



Yes, your past achievements having any effect on RNG results makes it a well thought out complaint. :roll:

Just for S&G... The penultimate discovery is currently 40k. At a "chance of success" of 1:10000 (which isn't unrealistic for "Near Impossible") you'd have a 53.5% probability to O-fer 250M research points. You're not even on the good side of 50-50 yet...


This is the same as the 90% Invasion issue. A lack of understanding of probabilities vs RNG combined with a sense of entitlement. Though, if Dan did put in a separate algorithm to troll you Nam... He's getting $50 out of my next very paltry paycheck.
Author:  namalak [ Tue Sep 03, 2013 1:43 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Research Tree Block?
I just want people to consider their current research production and see how long it would take them to make 250 million research.

Now imagine taking all of that time and getting nothing for it.

I might be hideously unlucky with the RNG but if I am not and this is a game/dev issue, I want to know and want it checked out.

What I am not wanting is people who dismiss that amount of effort as nothing and consider it whining when a person is upset about a game mechanic.
Author:  KxG Ryoko [ Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Research Tree Block?
namalak wrote:
I just want people to consider their current research production and see how long it would take them to make 250 million research.

Now imagine taking all of that time and getting nothing for it.

I might be hideously unlucky with the RNG but if I am not and this is a game/dev issue, I want to know and want it checked out.

What I am not wanting is people who dismiss that amount of effort as nothing and consider it whining when a person is upset about a game mechanic.


No no Nam, I consider it whining when someone KNOWS there's a chance of this happening, does it anyway, and then whines that it happened.

If Dan comes out publicly and states that no such injustices occurred against you, would you believe him?

Or would you lead the charge, demanding the RNG be revamped so it never again dares to keep you from your ct lab discoveries?


Look Nam, we get it~ You like building bases single-handedly because you enjoy devaluing the words "Group Effort", doesn't mean the game is going to play ball with you every single time you do.
Author:  namalak [ Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:24 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Research Tree Block?
KxG Ryoko wrote:
namalak wrote:
I just want people to consider their current research production and see how long it would take them to make 250 million research.

Now imagine taking all of that time and getting nothing for it.

I might be hideously unlucky with the RNG but if I am not and this is a game/dev issue, I want to know and want it checked out.

What I am not wanting is people who dismiss that amount of effort as nothing and consider it whining when a person is upset about a game mechanic.


No no Nam, I consider it whining when someone KNOWS there's a chance of this happening, does it anyway, and then whines that it happened.

If Dan comes out publicly and states that no such injustices occurred against you, would you believe him?

Or would you lead the charge, demanding the RNG be revamped so it never again dares to keep you from your ct lab discoveries?


Look Nam, we get it~ You like building bases single-handedly because you enjoy devaluing the words "Group Effort", doesn't mean the game is going to play ball with you every single time you do.


Honestly, after a month of planning for a massive push, a day off in which I used to make the effort, 8 hours of hitting a base for the ultimate payoff of nothing, I admit I was upset. And yes, I know it could just be the RNG. But I just want to make sure that is the case. And yes, I would believe Dan if he said it. He's never lied about anything before that I know of.

I apologize if I offend people by liking to do things on my own. I like rising to challenges.
Author:  Outcast [ Tue Sep 03, 2013 2:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Research Tree Block?
Though I couldn't be 100% certain, it probably all does come down to bad luck with the RNG. There will be legions like Unknown (with their fancy research scripts ;) ) that will find the discoveries in the first few hundred clicks. On the other side, there will be people like us that put hundreds of millions of research into the CT labs and have little or nothing to show for it. I figure the only thing to do is to keep clicking 'Attempt experiment' and wait for the RNG to work its magic in my favor to finish up the last 2 recipes in the lab here. :)
Author:  Darth Flagitious [ Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:31 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Research Tree Block?
Outcast wrote:
There will be legions like Unknown (with their fancy research scripts ;) ) that will find the discoveries in the first few hundred clicks.


Heh... Wasn't it PotC that popped one on someone's very first click?

;) Right back atcha.
Author:  Chloron [ Tue Sep 03, 2013 11:37 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Research Tree Block?
We got the Toxic planet the next day, but haven't been able to find the Polaron emitter and it's been over a month. I put in an attempt every hour and I know quite a few others do to. At this rate I'm going to get my genius medal from this one discovery...
Author:  squodge [ Mon Sep 09, 2013 8:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Research Tree Block?
But isn't your complaint similar to a guy walking into a casino, betting on a single number in roulette, and complaining that he's lost all his money?
The law of statistics says that, so long as the probability isn't zero, you will eventually get a hit if you're happy to keep playing.
Those guys who got all the CT Lab discoveries 'fairly quickly' are equivalent to the guy who hit his roulette number early - that happens too.

I understand why you're frustrated, but do what good gamblers do... walk away, and let someone else take over.
Author:  namalak [ Mon Sep 09, 2013 1:12 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Research Tree Block?
squodge wrote:
But isn't your complaint similar to a guy walking into a casino, betting on a single number in roulette, and complaining that he's lost all his money?
The law of statistics says that, so long as the probability isn't zero, you will eventually get a hit if you're happy to keep playing.
Those guys who got all the CT Lab discoveries 'fairly quickly' are equivalent to the guy who hit his roulette number early - that happens too.

I understand why you're frustrated, but do what good gamblers do... walk away, and let someone else take over.


*rolleyes* Yes, I am familiar with statistics and probabilities, and versed in gambling.

This is not just one spin in roulette. This is well over 6,000 spins. At the equivalent of 1 billion credits a spin.

And since part of my responsibilities as leader of a training legion (in which 40k research is NOT chicken feed for any new player), and since I have been playing the same number for months with no success, me wanting to ensure there are no shenanigans or to see if I am playing a shell game which has no probability is a fair inquiry.

I will continue to put my research towards the discoveries until the day I'm done. I am just wanting to make sure it isn't a vain effort in a flawed (or rigged) system and would not mind WebGuyDan taking a quick look to make sure I even have a chance.
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