It doesn't really matter, or even apply to me anyway.
I didn't use multiple devices at the same time, and I made posts
years ago about using more than one tab ... unlike other players that
exploit issues and do not say a word, and then start pointing fingers.

2 problems with that. First, you gotta catch people to punish them. Creating more people to catch, by increasing the incentive to break the rules, would logically mean that more people would 'get away with it'. Simply put: More criminals + the same number of cops = more unpunished crime.

Second: Looking at the TOS, which rule applies to custom built web browsers? Without proving intent, which is dicey at best. Maybe the browser exists NOW, and just happens to still to be able to open new tabs, even after this fix. How would the user even know they were doing wrong- unless they read this thread of the forum?

That wouldn't be exploiting a bug, per se, or a using a frame. No app, spider, robot, or data mining is involved. Unless the user is an avid reader of the forum, they may not even know that opening multiple tabs with their custom browser isn't allowed anymore. That would take out the 'circumvent' and 'exploit' angle of it- by removing intent (the need for which is strongly implied by the use of those terms). It isn't altering the code of the app, either.

I STRONGLY dislike the implication that using this app somehow cedes control of what code I can run on MY computer. And that changes to the rules mean I have to check with the rules before making changes to said code.

For the record, are customizations of the Firefox browser using about:config also considered a TOS violation? Or is that only if said change somehow circumvents the rules? How often do the rules need to be checked (for changes that affect) this type of thing? How about people running their own custom Linux builds? Where is the line here?

For the record: I use a single device, that I built myself. Lots of workarounds in the code for various reasons that completly unrelated to this app in any way shape or form. I will follow any rules made or changes made to them, but will NOT guarantee my continued use, (or purchases) if I feel others have an unfair advantage from them, or if I no longer enjoy the gameplay.

First, we're pretty good, as a community, at catching cheaters.

Second, ignorance of the law is no excuse.

• Use any robot, spider, Game search/retrieval application or other manual or automatic device or process to retrieve, index, "data mine" or in any way reproduce or circumvent the navigational structure or presentation of the Game or its contents;

**Italicized the key words for ya.

You don't need to have "intent." If you break the rules, you break the rules. It doesn't matter why.

Cant say that i subscribe to the idea that, playing with multiple devices is a breach in anyway to the current TOS nor should it be . I have often had the tablet and the Laptop on the page i could walk away take a break on the couch or something and chat or play a bit.


I have never noticed any bug every of double kills or rewards or anything like that, i assume the counters of artefacts are server based not browser based so not sure how that would even happen.

Either way. i cant see it mattering too muck in the long run, we will get used to these changes.

Is this still happening?

Just wondering because theres no mention of it that I can find, meanwhile I have a friend telling me the 'fix' has already been applied which if true has done nothing to fix any of the problems yet.

Thanks for updating the suggestions/coming soon post btw but I also see no mention of it there?

We have a version of the fix on the test server, but testing and tweaking is likely to take longer than expected. Thanks for checking on that.

Thanks for the update. It's appreciated, more than you think.


(Not just in this particular instance - any update)

Thank you very much =) looking forward to this update very much.

Hey again.

Just wondering how progress is going!

Still a very major issue and a fix would be great.

Still haven't seen any evidence that is is a common, let alone (very?!) major, issue. Would be happy if everything else ever was prioritized over this "fix". New missions, fixes for race conditions, multiple artifact options and other click reduction, homeworlds, etc.

Can't think of anything else as unimportant as this "issue".

You don't understand how many people are/could be taking advantage of this problem and there is no obvious way to tell them out. The only way to catch someone is by having them admit it, which is very unlikely as they are breaking the terms and conditions of this game.

In other words, you want to continue to play with people who are cheating as long as "new stuff" comes out.

How many is that then?


And what advantage is that? The only thing I've heard of is double reds. Which by the way is a symptom of the race condition problem... Multiple devices for a kill just exposes another symptom of it.


Ah, so you don't know how many are, and given the wave of reports of "being double killed by a single attacker" that we see on the forums I'm willing to bet it's in the arena of non-existent (or so near as to be essentially non-existent).


In other words, since you refuse to read my post where I spell it out, I prefer that real problems are fixed and new stuff made then some band-aid for a specific symptom that isn't widespread or notable when the race condition remains addressed.

Of course, I've been around this topic with you before and you were wonderfully short on facts or rationale at that time so I'm not holding my breath for evidence or logic in your response to this.

The advantage is using two clients or even two devices at the same time. If it can allow you to get double reds, maybe it allows you to get double yellows or two blues. I don't the extent of this problem and what people are getting away with it. We only know what the one person guilty of this so far told us.



The only way so far to provide Dan with evidence is when they do a double disable. Other than someone admitting it. Now that everyone knows this they won't risk it.



Probably because I can't understand why someone would not want to prevent people from cheating.

Or maybe it makes unicorns, we just don't know. There could be ships with unicorn mods equipped right now!


But you feel quite free in trying to make it the biggest most important problem ever. Are you a professional mountain-out-of-mole-hill-maker?


So... it's not a problem? Which is it, a huge problem that breaks everything, or something that no one does because 1) it doesn't do much and 2) it would get them into trouble and they're afraid to?



Way to stack those negatives and still miss the point while trying to impugn my character yet again. I'll spell this out at a basic level since, and if you persist presenting straw men instead of addressing my position, it will at least establish for me how much you really care about solving problems.

• I think the race condition problems should be fixed (as I've stated numerous times before).
• You want simultaneous multiple devices to be blocked.
• Double disables is a symptom of the race condition problem (as I and others have stated before as well).
• Simultaneous use of multiple devices allows the double disable to occur more often by causing a race condition to occur more often.
• I'm pretty sure that blocking simultaneous multiple devices will introduce a host of other problems and hassles, and I'm positive that if the underlying race condition is not fixed, then there will be more problems down the road.

So no, I don't want a bad fix to a small and in your own words "Now that everyone knows this they won't risk it" bug when many other things need attention first.

I'll make no claims to the pervasiveness or definite effects of using multiple devices, but a couple things...

Can it allow multiple simultaneous invasion attempts?
Can it allow twice (thrice, etc) the number of NPC kills in a given time frame?
Can it result in missed energy usage?
Can the use of autoclicking devices or scripts intensify the effect of the race condition resulting from multiple device use?

All of those are legitimate additional reasons why a fix should be made. To dismiss the necessity based on "it's only an extra red badge" is short-sighted. Webguydan has made a commitment to fixing this for whatever reason. Perhaps he sees something on his end that we can not see from ours. There's nothing wrong with asking for an update.

I'm sad (yes) if we can't use multiple tabs. - Can't use multiple device? I don't care, never did that anyway
If Dan could make us not using multiple device, but can use multiple tabs, it's great!

I believe fixing race-condition is the better option

This one is plausible, though I think there would be reports here of "Planet has been conquered by ship! x2" if this was being done.


From my understanding of the problem, no, no more than a fast connection legally would.


The inverse actually seems more likely. We're all familiar with overlocked fabs and whatnot. When the race condition occurs (in the situations I've seen, legally from multiple ships hitting an elite or a base), the mechanism at play will cause hits that register simultaneously to overwrite each other, so I would assume that either the energy use is only negated when the damage is, or it does get used even when the damage gets overwritten, increasing energy use for an activity.


Hypothetically, sure, but to what gains? The old multiple drops symptom has been patched, I reiterate the lack of evidence of other multi-device specific exploits, is there some substantiated recurring problem this actually addresses?


Shortsighted? Please... I'm not expecting that everyone will have the same priority list as me, but really, redo your poll with this as an option if you doubt that a single report of a symptom should not be the focus of Dan's effort when there are underlying bugs to be fixed and actual gameplay enhancements to be mad. I didn't "dismiss the necessity" casually, I looked at the evidence and weighed it against other things that need attention, and yeah, I find it lacking. Really, I expected better from you.



Since Hallucinations can vamp on this in unrelated threads and chooses to bump this topic with the claim that "Still a very major issue and a fix would be great", I daresay there's nothing wrong in pressing him to defend his assumption and criticize his pressure on Dan accordingly.

Time spent on one thing necessarily reduces time spent on other things, so if he's going to squeaky wheel this up the priority list, I'm going to call him on his shaky premise.

ICBLF you have no idea what someone told me yesterday and at this point you really don't know what your talking about because you don't understand the extent of this problem. It involves using this exact glitch to gain materials that normally would not be available. Hence why I necro'd this.

I have reported it to Dan. If it is true or not I will leave that up to Dan to test and figure out.

I don't care if you don't understand why it is a major problem because Dan already does.

Edit: No I will not repeat what I was told to anyone.

+1. In spite of some discussions to the contrary, the fact that this exploit has been exposed and is now public knowledge may mean any number of people may start trying to utilize it now. Some of the super power players may have been using this exploit for a long time to pad their stats, but until Hallucinations documented the issue and the way it was done became public knowledge, most of us had no idea how it was being done. For instance, I was multi-disabled by another player once many months ago. At the time, I thought it was just someone using a scripting engine to hit faster than the game could deal with and was just similar to the muitl-base badge exploit that was exposed and fixed around that time. Maybe that's all it was. But now, in retrospect, I wonder how long the multi-device exploit may have actually been known and attempted.

What may have been secret knowledge passed around among a select group of players in the past is now out there and all forum readers can pretty much figure out the approach used based on the posts on the subject so far. That door can't be closed by pretending it doesn't happen anymore since one player was banned for it. Admittedly, most of us who have read this and are hard core game fans would never even attempt it knowing it is a offense you can be banned for. But there is always a another hard core group of people looking for active exploits in any game and nothing short of getting caught and banned will actually stop them. Does the fact that hacking for financial gain is against the law and some people get caught and imprisoned for it prevent thousands or even maybe millions of other hackers around the world from trying to get rich quick doing the same things? They just to try to learn how keep on going but not to get caught making the same mistakes the guy who got caught did.

And there is no practical way for most of us to know how many people are attempting the exploit or how many different uses have already been found that we simply don't know about -- especially if they avoid multi-disables (which are a dead give-away now). Other possible exploits (like multiple simultaeous raids), most users would not even question. If I see raided x2 or hacked x2, I've just assumed someone used a time manipulator and muiti-raided or multi-hacked me. There is nothing on the news feed that would help me know the difference between a legit muilt-raid using TMs or use of the exploit to get credit for simultaneous multiple-raids (and possibly circumventing the TM restriction). So, it's possible that this exploit may be in use frequently and just not detected and reported since users would assume a legal approach was used for some of these attacks. This is truly an issue where prevention is probably the only real remedy.