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Issues with Crimson Cluster Missile
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Author:  desolira [ Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:15 am ]
Post subject:  Issues with Crimson Cluster Missile
Hi! I just wanted to report that when attempting to destroy two upgraded OBVIATION BARRIERS with "Crimson Cluster Missiles", the missiles got consumed and nothing happened. I used two.

I would like to suggest adding a block from this artifact being consumed when it is, in fact, going to do nothing.

I also would like to request the support team either:
1. Removes the obviation barriers manually, completing the intended uses of my crimson cluster missiles, a very limited artifact; or
2. Return the two malfunctioned uses of Crimson Cluster Missiles back to my inventory.

Any help with this issue would be appreciated.
Author:  Thaumanovic [ Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Issues with Crimson Cluster Missile
desolira wrote:
two upgraded OBVIATION BARRIERS

There's your problem.

I know for certain that the Trellith Structural Energizer will prevent any of its target structures from being destroyed, but while likely, I am, however, unsure if the Stryll Confinement Protocols work in the same way. I do not see you receiving anything from support regarding this matter as the behaviour seems expected/normal.
Author:  desolira [ Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:50 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Issues with Crimson Cluster Missile
It's still a standard building, and there was no warning. So no, it's an error that should be addressed. If it would not work, it should not have been consumed in the first place.
Upgraded or not, that is not what the CCM says. It says it works on a Standard Building, which obviation barrier surely is.
Author:  Thaumanovic [ Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:51 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Issues with Crimson Cluster Missile
desolira wrote:
It's still a standard building, and there was no warning. So no, it's an error that should be addressed. If it would not work, it should not have been consumed in the first place.
Upgraded or not, that is not what the CCM says. It says it works on a Standard Building, which obviation barrier surely is.

In other games, you are punished for lacking game knowledge. While frustrating, yes, this could be comparable to that.
Author:  Thaumanovic [ Mon Feb 20, 2017 5:53 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Issues with Crimson Cluster Missile
Actually, upon checking, the Crimson Cluster Missile description text does indeed inform you:
Quote:
Destroys one non-special defense, attack, or population structure
at random on an enemy planet
Author:  desolira [ Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Issues with Crimson Cluster Missile
Aye, I still am entitled to believe that there should be a block from this artifact being consumed if its applied effect is nothing, and there's no possible way to test whether or not a building was upgraded one way or the other. Either way, I feel it's fair to request the artifacts be returned to me. Once again they are extremely limited, and I was attempting to use them as intended.
Author:  senatorhung [ Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Issues with Crimson Cluster Missile
Destroys 1 standard defense, attack, or population structure at random on an enemy planet.

an upgraded building is not standard ...

and it is very easy to tell when a building is upgraded .. you just look at the stats.
Author:  Thaumanovic [ Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:12 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Issues with Crimson Cluster Missile
desolira wrote:
Aye, I still am entitled to believe that there should be a block from this artifact being consumed if its applied effect is nothing, and there's no possible way to test whether or not a building was upgraded one way or the other. Either way, I feel it's fair to request the artifacts be returned to me. Once again they are extremely limited, and I was attempting to use them as intended.

That's the problem with people these days, they are all so entitled. What you believe and what is fact are two completely different things. You should start accepting now that these artifacts were wasted due to your ignorance, and that you will not be getting them back. Many other players have learned how CCMs function, both the correct way, and the hard way. You fall into the latter category.

senatorhung wrote:
Destroys 1 standard defense, attack, or population structure at random on an enemy planet.

I'd just like to inform you that this description line is from the wiki and differs from that of the one in-game. This is perhaps because the CCM description text was changed, or that it was added to the wiki incorrectly to begin with. Although it has no real difference, the meaning that each of the descriptions give could be interpreted differently. You can see I quoted the one from the game above.
Author:  senatorhung [ Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Issues with Crimson Cluster Missile
Guide wrote:
senatorhung wrote:
Destroys 1 standard defense, attack, or population structure at random on an enemy planet.

I'd just like to inform you that this description line is from the wiki and differs from that of the one in-game. This is perhaps because the CCM description text was changed, or that it was added to the wiki incorrectly to begin with. Although it has no real difference, the meaning that each of the descriptions give could be interpreted differently.

well, you were the one who linked to the wiki lol.

i don't have the arti to confirm for myself since i haven't done the mission. but i can update the wiki once i can find confirmation of the actual text.
Author:  Thaumanovic [ Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:18 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Issues with Crimson Cluster Missile
senatorhung wrote:
but i can update the wiki once i can find confirmation of the actual text.

This, exactly:
Quote:
Destroys one non-special defense, attack, or population structure at random on an enemy planet
Author:  senatorhung [ Mon Feb 20, 2017 6:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Issues with Crimson Cluster Missile
Guide wrote:
senatorhung wrote:
but i can update the wiki once i can find confirmation of the actual text.

This, exactly:
Quote:
Destroys one non-special defense, attack, or population structure at random on an enemy planet

then it has been changed since may 2013 since the last time that wiki page was updated. personally, i would have kept 'standard' and just added non.upgraded ... so "standard non.upgraded" or even "standard (as researched)".

wiki updated to reflect your new wording for now.
Author:  Thaumanovic [ Mon Feb 20, 2017 7:56 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Issues with Crimson Cluster Missile
Desolira, if you are going to talk about me and call me names, might I suggest that you do it where it is relevant? Yes, I can see the game chat on Facebook. I will reply here to your queries so that they may be accessible for people in future, should it ever become needed again.

You make a plethora of points:
  1. You imply I am wrong for pointing out the exact description text of the CCM. "Some [redacted] on the forums is trying to point out the artifact says nonspecial"
  2. You cannot definitively tell how a structure was upgraded. "I argued that it's impossible to determine if something was upgraded with tellith or stryll enhancers"
  3. Crimson Cluster Missiles should not be consumed if they have no effect. "It shouldn't be consumed if there's no logical target."
  4. The CCM description text did not specifically state its exact functions for all structures. "It wasn't specifically specified by the missile that an upgraded STANDARD building is not a standard building."
  5. The planet owner no longer plays, and therefore you deserve special treatment from the developers. "I really just want them to remove them. It's an owner who's clearly been inactive for a very long time."
  6. Upgraded buildings becoming immune is a bad thing. "It's kind of a bummer it makes buildings immune. yeah"

I will respond to these in order:
  1. I was correct in pointing this out. I am not sure why this warrants calling me names. It was your failure to learn what is considered special and what is not that caused you to waste your CCMs.
  2. This is irrelevant. I did not say there was a difference between the two upgrades. I said that it was likely that SCPs also granted immunity, perhaps to dismiss the ambiguity you mention.
  3. I could potentially see myself agreeing with this, but I believe it takes away from the realism of the game, and thus the game knowledge required to play well. There are not very many consequences in this game, so I am in favour of keeping them where they already exist. You should grateful that you wasted only two, and not twenty.
  4. I do not mean to be rude, but I think you are just making excuses for your ignorance at this point. There are dozens upon dozens of artifacts that do not specify their exact functions and interations. I think it is somewhat silly to expect this, and I think players are obliged to research artifacts before using them. Personally, I find it to be a rewarding experience.
  5. The owner of the planet being inactive is completely irrelevant. All players in the game should be treated equally by the developers and support staff.
  6. Similar to the argument you make, Trellith Structural Energizers are also highly-limited. While it is unlikely that anyone would use them on Obviation Barriers, it would still be unfortunate for their owner to have them wasted through means other than having the planet stolen. Perhaps you would see things differently were you in another pair of shoes?

I believe that covers most of it. Should you have any questions, or should anyone else have any input, I would gladly hear it. :)
Author:  desolira [ Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:16 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Issues with Crimson Cluster Missile
My argument is that there is a lack of proper information regarding it within the text of the CCM itself, and a lack of an internal game mechanism to prevent the use of it when it has no use. It should be properly discerned in the text like Senator suggested. Standard or non-upgraded in the description is not too much to ask.
Author:  Thaumanovic [ Mon Feb 20, 2017 8:24 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Issues with Crimson Cluster Missile
desolira wrote:
Standard or non-upgraded in the description is not too much to ask.

I still think that people should be permitted to waste them on planets without valid targets, but I wholeheartedly agree with changing the description of the CCM.
Author:  desolira [ Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:11 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Issues with Crimson Cluster Missile
As requested, 2 Crimson Cluster Missile(s) were returned to your artifact cargo.


Thank you support! The wiki page has been updated to warn that upgraded buildings are indeed special. Please update the CCM info to reflect this. ^^
Author:  Deigobene [ Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:20 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Issues with Crimson Cluster Missile
Seriously, no. You got your precious CCMs back, the description is perfectly valid and correct as it is.

Please stop blaming others for your comprehension problems.
Author:  Thaumanovic [ Tue Feb 21, 2017 11:22 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Issues with Crimson Cluster Missile
Deigobene wrote:
Please stop blaming others for your comprehension problems.

You seem to have beaten me to the punch. I am incredibly surprised that support would replace these.
Author:  eternalpaw [ Thu Feb 23, 2017 3:20 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Issues with Crimson Cluster Missile
Guide wrote:
I am incredibly surprised that support would replace these.


I'm surprised people still have a need to use CCMs
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