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 Perpetual Hyperturbine 
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Joined: Tue Oct 09, 2012 1:42 am
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Post Perpetual Hyperturbine
So I had one that wasn't fully upgraded. Well today I stole a planet that did not have one fully upgraded either. Figured it would upgrade both doing a daily. Nothing. It actually upgraded neither one. Ticket time.


Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:13 am
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Post Re: Perpetual Hyperturbine
yuck

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Thu Aug 10, 2017 1:22 am
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Post Re: Perpetual Hyperturbine
you'll just have to trash one to upgrade the other. not like you invaded the planet just for the perp (i hope).

i stock up on mass storage pods and just do 4 daily missions during seasonal events to make sure any perps are fully upgraded immediately after installation.

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Thu Aug 10, 2017 6:13 am
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Post Re: Perpetual Hyperturbine
Yikes, good to know. I've (mostly) been making sure I do 4 dailies right away to max 'em out as I make them so haven't run into this yet, but good to know for future reference. Will definitely hold off installing for times when I can do dailies right away or know it'll be a day or so before I invade...

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Thu Aug 10, 2017 11:04 am
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Post Re: Perpetual Hyperturbine
looks like the perfect defence when you steal a planet then :)

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Thu Aug 10, 2017 2:52 pm
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Post Re: Perpetual Hyperturbine
Will Dan fix this so everyone can upgrade even if you have more than 1 of them needing upgrading

just pick the first one in the list of planets that needs the upgrade

just make sure you can only install if they are all upgraded


come on how hard can this be to do???

its far easier doing that that trying to find said planet or planets that were taken that have turbines on that need to be removed
it(they) shouldn't need removing

come on dan - this is something you should fix

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Mon Mar 11, 2019 3:54 pm
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Post Re: Perpetual Hyperturbine
XavZepherio wrote:
Will Dan fix this so everyone can upgrade even if you have more than 1 of them needing upgrading

just pick the first one in the list of planets that needs the upgrade

just make sure you can only install if they are all upgraded


come on how hard can this be to do???

its far easier doing that that trying to find said planet or planets that were taken that have turbines on that need to be removed
it(they) shouldn't need removing

come on dan - this is something you should fix

no, a fix isn't necessary. if you can't figure out which planet you just invaded, that's on you. the way it is implemented is a bit of friction - that rewards thinking players and penalizes the slackers.

either upgrade a turbine all at once after installing, or keep track of the ONE planet with a non.upgraded hyperturbine. pretty simple.

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Last edited by senatorhung on Mon Mar 11, 2019 6:02 pm, edited 2 times in total.



Mon Mar 11, 2019 4:51 pm
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Post Re: Perpetual Hyperturbine
Wouldn't mind a fix for this. It's not a serious issue because it's easily resolved but is still annoying.


Mon Mar 11, 2019 5:44 pm
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Post Re: Perpetual Hyperturbine
I'm pretty sure that it works as designed (for a change)

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Tue Mar 12, 2019 1:33 pm
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Post Re: Perpetual Hyperturbine
senatorhung wrote:
XavZepherio wrote:
Will Dan fix this so everyone can upgrade even if you have more than 1 of them needing upgrading

just pick the first one in the list of planets that needs the upgrade

just make sure you can only install if they are all upgraded


come on how hard can this be to do???

its far easier doing that that trying to find said planet or planets that were taken that have turbines on that need to be removed
it(they) shouldn't need removing

come on dan - this is something you should fix

no, a fix isn't necessary. if you can't figure out which planet you just invaded, that's on you. the way it is implemented is a bit of friction - that rewards thinking players and penalizes the slackers.

either upgrade a turbine all at once after installing, or keep track of the ONE planet with a non.upgraded hyperturbine. pretty simple.


It does need a fix, because this isn't documented behavior. It would be easier to buy your argument of "rewarding thinking players" if this wasn't obviously just an unhandled edge case; it is extremely unlikely that this was a design to reward clever players who would have no reason to know it works contrary to its description.

As a developer myself, though, I do appreciate that attitude. I wish every user was willing to say it was their fault for finding an edge case I didn't have the foresight to handle, and I shouldn't need to handle it correctly in code.

Texas Toast wrote:
I'm pretty sure that it works as designed (for a change)


If so, then the description should be fixed to reflect that design. This behavior is contrary to the description.


Fri Mar 15, 2019 2:09 am
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Post Re: Perpetual Hyperturbine
here's the description:

Boosts the planet's artifact production by 1%.
Upgrades when completing daily missions
Can only build once you have fully upgraded your other Turbines, if any.

the 3rd condition prevents building another one. thus, it is EXPECTED behaviour that you should only have 1 available to upgrade at a time.

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Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:04 am
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Post Re: Perpetual Hyperturbine
senatorhung wrote:
here's the description:

Boosts the planet's artifact production by 1%.
Upgrades when completing daily missions
Can only build once you have fully upgraded your other Turbines, if any.

the 3rd condition prevents building another one. thus, it is EXPECTED behaviour that you should only have 1 available to upgrade at a time.

Need I point out that it refers to "other turbines" in a plural sense?

I think the solution that would provide the best QoL is to allow the construction or theft of as many Perpetual Hyperturbines as anyone wants, but only have 1 (at random) upgrade when a daily mission is completed.


Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:21 am
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Post Re: Perpetual Hyperturbine
Guide wrote:
senatorhung wrote:
here's the description:

Boosts the planet's artifact production by 1%.
Upgrades when completing daily missions
Can only build once you have fully upgraded your other Turbines, if any.

the 3rd condition prevents building another one. thus, it is EXPECTED behaviour that you should only have 1 available to upgrade at a time.

Need I point out that it refers to "other turbines" in a plural sense?

I think the solution that would provide the best QoL is to allow the construction or theft of as many Perpetual Hyperturbines as anyone wants, but only have 1 (at random) upgrade when a daily mission is completed.

yes .. other turbines .. FULLY UPGRADED turbines.

i would have no issue if the trigger was changed as you suggest here .. but i just don't see the need for it, especially since the prismatic upgrade and 9.year medal stuff is still outstanding.

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Last edited by senatorhung on Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:35 am, edited 1 time in total.



Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:33 am
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Post Re: Perpetual Hyperturbine
senatorhung wrote:
Guide wrote:
senatorhung wrote:
here's the description:

Boosts the planet's artifact production by 1%.
Upgrades when completing daily missions
Can only build once you have fully upgraded your other Turbines, if any.

the 3rd condition prevents building another one. thus, it is EXPECTED behaviour that you should only have 1 available to upgrade at a time.

Need I point out that it refers to "other turbines" in a plural sense?

I think the solution that would provide the best QoL is to allow the construction or theft of as many Perpetual Hyperturbines as anyone wants, but only have 1 (at random) upgrade when a daily mission is completed.

yes .. other turbines .. FULLY UPGRADED turbines.

i would have no issue if the trigger was changed as you suggest here .. but i just don't see the need for it.

But it's "Can only B U I L D" not "Can only upgrade"


Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:35 am
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Post Re: Perpetual Hyperturbine
Guide wrote:
senatorhung wrote:
senatorhung wrote:
here's the description:

Boosts the planet's artifact production by 1%.
Upgrades when completing daily missions
Can only build once you have fully upgraded your other Turbines, if any.

the 3rd condition prevents building another one. thus, it is EXPECTED behaviour that you should only have 1 available to upgrade at a time.

Need I point out that it refers to "other turbines" in a plural sense?

I think the solution that would provide the best QoL is to allow the construction or theft of as many Perpetual Hyperturbines as anyone wants, but only have 1 (at random) upgrade when a daily mission is completed.

Guide wrote:
senatorhung wrote:
yes .. other turbines .. FULLY UPGRADED turbines.

i would have no issue if the trigger was changed as you suggest here .. but i just don't see the need for it.

But it's "Can only B U I L D" not "Can only upgrade"

Dan obviously coded the trigger so that only ONE turbine could be upgraded at a time. hence his requirement that only one could be built until all others were upgraded.

your suggestion about random triggering MIGHT work but as Texas stated earlier .. the current setup is likely the way that Dan intended it to work.

did he neglect invasions ? sure. but since there is a workaround, there is no need to 'fix' something that aint broken compared to the 9.year medal stuff and the prismatic upgrades which ARE broken. if you get a 2d non.fully upgraded turbine .. just trash one. it's not like 200 mass storage pods and 100 android scientists are going to be greatly missed. otherwise, hold off on invading a planet with a non.upgraded turbine until you have completely upgraded one. or, place a non.fully upgraded turbine on a planet that you hope gets taken.

i have 292 fully upgraded turbines on my planets .. barring one planet invaded this week .. the next hypertubine goes on a planet with 434 arti per hour ... so getting close to having one on every planet where it would provide any useful benefit. this is not rocket science.

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Fri Mar 15, 2019 4:39 am
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Post Re: Perpetual Hyperturbine
Yes, in hindsight, we know that that's how it was coded. Unless we are given access to the source code, that is irrelevant. This is not how it was described.

Yes, this fix is lower priority. That doesn't mean it shouldn't be fixed at all.

It is broken, thus there is a need to fix it, or to update the description to explain that it isn't. If it doesn't match the description, then it is broken.

Yes, it isn't rocket science. But nobody is going to know this happens until they run into it, because it isn't described. Anyone who encounters this will be surprised by the results, because they are not as described, and put in another support ticket. For all we know, this has already happened.

The amount you have is irrelevant. The fact that you can always upgrade yours immediately is irrelevant. I understand that you people can't see things from others' perspectives, but I will explain the perspective of most players to you: they don't know how it was coded, they only know how it was described, and they don't realize those won't match.

Only the description and behavior are relevant: they should match. They do not. That must be changed, even if that change must be put off until something else is fixed. This is basic design.


Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:19 am
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Post Re: Perpetual Hyperturbine
read the description again. read it in TOTAL.

you can not build a hyperturbine if any of your other turbines are not fully upgraded.

to make doubly sure, Dan's code apparently checks whether you have more than one non.upgraded hyperturbine when you complete the daily mission .. if you have more than one, nothing gets upgraded. this is what Dan INTENDED (no doubt due to scripting shenanigans). why would he 'fix' something that he designed specifically to nerf the cheaters ? you can squabble about how you don't LIKE how he did his code .. but that's what he chose. your 'bug' is his 'feature'.

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Fri Mar 15, 2019 11:55 am
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Post Re: Perpetual Hyperturbine
Sorry, there must have been some confusion. He did not build a hyperturbine when he had one that wasn't fully upgraded. This second one was on a planet which he invaded. Perhaps you're confused about what it means to "build" a structure? "Build" specifically refers to the act of paying for a structure which requires materials, or using an artifact which places a structure on a planet, not to invading a planet which has structures on it.

How did you determine that this behavior was designed specifically to nerf cheaters? And what does that have to do with the fact that the description doesn't mention this behavior?

I understand you cannot avoid being subjugated by hindsight bias, and thus are trying to argue that this is what is implied by the description now that you know that this is what happens. I am sorry that this is difficult for you to understand, but please try: the description only states that you cannot build another hyperturbine when you haven't finished upgrading existing ones, it does not state what happens when you capture another hyperturbine while the first isn't upgraded.

"Can't build another" does not imply "neither will be upgraded if you captured one".
"Neither will be upgraded if you captured one" therefore is not implied.
"Neither will be upgraded if you captured one" is not explicitly stated.
"Neither will be upgraded if you captured one" is neither implied nor explicitly stated, therefore is not described behavior.
Explicitly described behavior is "will be upgraded when completing daily missions".
"Neither will be upgraded if you captured one" is the actual behavior.
"Not upgraded by completing daily mission" is contrary to "will be upgraded when completing daily missions".
Actual behavior contrary to described behavior is poor design.
Actual behavior and/or described behavior should be updated in order to not be contrary.

You haven't seemed to notice, presumably due to your frustration, but I have implied that the description could be changed, if this was the intention.

I hope that was easier to follow. Unfortunately, "'Can't build another' implies 'neither will be upgraded'" is only a delusion, it has no basis in reality, and is not part of the description. Again, I am sorry that this is difficult, but reality can be frustrating like that at times.


Fri Mar 15, 2019 12:59 pm
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Post Re: Perpetual Hyperturbine
Dan "intended" this exact thing to happen in this scenario? Knowing the GL track record, this scenario was probably not even taken into account during development and implementation. With that being said, I am not sure if it is easy to code a fix for this or not. The best solution currently is to remain aware of this potential issue and delete one of the extra non-upgraded turbines.

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Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:35 pm
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Post Re: Perpetual Hyperturbine
Kevin9809 wrote:
The best solution currently is to remain aware of this potential issue and delete one of the extra non-upgraded turbines.

The best user solution, yes. Not the best overall solution.


Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:55 pm
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