Totally +1 base the upkeep on the level of the base.

+1 to spyder's idea...

I haven't quite figured the details yet but this should help with tech & modules balance as well
due to the number you can install on a base's level

I don't particularly like spyder's idea tbh.... Because I cannot find a rational to it.
For example, a lvl 4 base and a lvl 5 base both with same area(the lvl 4 used expansions to up it while 5 didn't or didn't max it)
the two have the same modules all across the board.

The ONLY advantage the lvl 5 is
1: 5 extra production point, probably raise some resource production from 250% to 275% (10% real increase)
2: lvl bonus, from 1600% total to 2100% total, about 30% boost.
overall about ~40% increase

But guess what? the lvl 5, being same difficulty and have better raid contents than the lvl 4, would get attacked more often. In fact, following the habits of dysonians and perhaps many others, they would be kept at 0% defender bonus half the time.
100%*200%(defender bonus)=200%
140%(compared to lvl 4, as calculated above)*100%=140%
OMG, the lvl 4 base actually gets more shipment!
Now why is the lvl 5 paying more upkeep??

I understand that lvl 5 base will likely have bigger areas, better modules etc, but the fact that this is even POSSIBLE makes no sense to me.

I'm a rather strange person who prefers to play a game in a more "honorable" style. So for example, I will never sell planets scans, or legion hop for any other "not intended by dev(Dan)" actions.
And following that concept, I personally believe that having techs on ur base that you didn't research to be just flat out wrong.

With that said, upping upkeep on everything is just the least of the actions that should be taken.
As again, if you did research it, you probably can afford the upkeep after even a 3-5x upkeep increase.
If not, you should NOT be using it and you should consider it lucky that you are allowed to use it under the condition that you can pay the upkeep(however hard it might be)

Personally, I believe the best idea is to flat out disallow usage of higher-than-researched modules, just like the planet ones. But that's harder to code so the upkeep one might be considered instead.

Anyway, after all that ranting... back to something I've mentioned before.

We still don't know what's after the hyper log tier in term of special production moduel do we? or have anyone completed the tree yet(the wiki make it seem that no one have yet)? The thing is, if there are more tiers after that, some of those module might take 5bil or more each in upkeep. And if that's the case, then the top legions would have a reasonable base upkeep(as compared to their ship). And so an increase is no longer really necessary from that stand point. So where as I'm all for the tech restriction like planets regardless of anything(like this possibility), the upkeep increase may or may not be a good idea depending on what the true max base upkeep is. If it's already like 200bil or more after like 2-3 more tiers of research or even more, than there is no need for an upkeep boost at all, at least not in the long run.


err.......... and emm.... can u guys take the pure fighting to the pub? I mean when it at least had some related content it was fine-ish~ but now it's just....

I can understand where you are coming from, but as you said a level 4 can have the same area as a level 5 if they pay for it. So I feel if they want to pay for it then let them, don't hold the rest of the players back that don't pay for it because some people buy there way in the game. If that is how it is going to be then those that don't pay money for the game might as well quit.

This topic has been derailed. I have asked Baci to repair the topic and put it where it should be. We just need to wait.

I would support a slightly higher upkeep on standard modules and also that a member needs to have them researched.

However..... I think all modules that use special space should be exempt. Having higher tier production and other items does not affect base strength.

Personally, higher base upkeep or not (and I do think a higher upkeep of some degree would be a good thing, I mean ships costing more than bases? ...), I think it should be like planets where if a legion does not have access to certain modules yet, they cannot have them on the base, plain and simple.

It wouldn't be that hard, in all honesty, to code it. I mean, the game recognizes you can't build something if you don't have it. Or, if someone else built something and you got it (i.e. planet taking), but don't have the research, you can't use it.

Simple code, whenever a player tries to build a certain module, ensure that they have the research. Whenever a player leaves a legion, perform a check on all members research and if no player has the research for any modules, they become 'inactive'. Just like on planets, they'll just become inactive. No production, no upkeep, but takes up space.

It is sometimes annoying to lock a 4 to fined that it is pimped out with nice mods and all but, With numbers any thing can get taken out.. Cant help but look at rank 5,6,7's bases as a good team effort idea. A shot at working with other legions and building some kind of friendship and a shot at getting cool stuff. when they first came out i imagined bases to be a little like the boss summon fights in castle age , where many ppl need to be hitting it. I think Dan should change it so every one who attacks the base gets 1 badge regardless of number of people on the base. This way if 3 legions are fighting it all 150ish people will have incentive to at least throw a few shots at the base.
The bases them self's are fine the way that are i think there grate to inspire team work and can be over come. Instead of fixing the bases lest find a way to get more people able to hit and get some kind of drop.

Lately I have been helping people upgrade there bases for free as long as they can pay for the mod i will install it , mostly to help them out . I dont think people in top legions realize how much there production gets hurt do to a disable. How ever we made it just fine with out base production so ya.. I can see both sides to this argument but im fine with the way it is now.

And this is why people don't like the Dysonians. You call people stupid for sharing their opinion.



Now then, I agree with you on one point here: high rankers building a base for a lowby legion needs to be limited somehow. I've seen bases exactly like the one you're talking about, and you know there's no way they built the base on their own. However, jacking up the daily upkeep isn't the way to go about this. Like I said earlier, it's already hard enough for many people to hit their own daily upkeep, and if they have to worry about the base's upkeep too, it's going to cause a lot of broken ships.

I think a better way to fix this is to make it so that one has to be loyal for a couple weeks before they can contribute (is it a week now? I can't remember). Also make it so that at least one person in the legion must have the required tech researched in order for the base modules to function. So then when the high ranker leaves the legion, if no one in the legion has Trans-Entropy Drives researched, the Trans-Entropy Arrays on the base will not function.

After reading through all this, I can form some opinions.

I don't feel like finding the quotes but....
Someone said that they are trying to open all content to all players.
Not all players like to participate in base combat. My legion has a level 4, over half way to level 5 base. We are content with taking out level 2 and level 3 bases. I honestly don't care too much about base raids.
Just because you guys think base raid drops are so good doesn't mean others do.
Some legions would perhaps rather NPC or PvP.

I honestly will always be -1 on bases needing someone with the right research tech for a module to function. Let me give you an example why.

Say a mid rank member from a top 50 legion decides to join another legion, maybe that of an in real life friend. He goes to the legion, sees the base and decides to help the legit legion of his friend, and installs some pretty nice modules. Well, the friend decides that he wants to stay in that legion, and offer his advice to the 30-40+ players in the legion. But, one day, something happens in his life that forces him to have to go inactive.
So, should the legion suffer because of some unfortunate event? Or should they be allowed to keep their tech?
If they can keep up with the upkeep, they deserve the tech.

You're clearly right, you have been nothing but respectful and cordial. Clearly not a troll.



This is really not a valid justification for anything...and i'm also assuming this isn't hypothetical but what actually has happened from the sounds of it.

If I give you a black box that makes food, and you say sweet I don't have to look for food anymore and then i disappear...The moment the black box breaks you are out of food and have no idea how to fix it.

You don't know how the technology works, who are you paying this upkeep too? It doesn't even make sense really.

the technology to create something and the technology to fix are not the same. I can fix multiple things on a car. But, I don't know how to make a gasket or how to make a brake pad or water pump.

You just proved the point...partially. What do you do when you need to replace it? You can't.

The other part is, this isn't a car lol, to you it's a black box, you have no earthly idea how it works. You at least have an idea of how to fix a car because someone showed you how or you referenced the material. There is no one to show you how to do these things.

If I asked you to fix the cavity resonator on a linear particle accelerator.......I don't think that would end too well.

I'll try to describe my point better.

Which would you think would require less knowledge?

Building something from scratch with the blue prints or repairing that something knowing exactly what you need on it to replace it?

Perhaps a happy median would be to have modules randomly breakdown and need repair?

Perhaps upkeep should double/treble is no-one in your legion can build it?

I suppose you can go that route, if you have no one available to fix it, you have to hire someone to do it for you. Last I checked that trans entropy repair guy is not backed by the better business bureau, so better get a second estimate.

Careful use of the BFH and enough Duct-tape... It's all good...

Although a few of our members have upgraded other legion bases, I have to agree that it shouldn't be allowed. You can't install modules on your ship that you don't have researched. Legion-mates can't install buildings on your planets that you don't have researched. Why should the base be any different? The planet building point indicates that the coding already exists (to a degree) to prohibit unresearched tech use, so it shouldn't be that difficult to put it in for bases. Just tweak it to poll all members of the legion like it polls the owner of a planet.

As for the upkeep question, I've got to agree an increase is needed.. Perhaps not a 10x increase as has been suggested, but something. I'm at rank 515ish and my ship upkeep is nearly as much as our level 6 base upkeep and that is with Builder bonus. Without, and my ship is more expensive than our base. Either base upkeep is too low or ship upkeep is too high. Increasing base upkeep would also allow for an addition Ability Point use. -x% per loyal Builder profession. That would add an extra dynamic to how to use your base points. Upkeep or Grid Surge? Hmmm... Decisions decisions....

Are you talking about the cavity losses? Is cavity resonator a new term or did you get that from sifi?

I do get the points , I oddly know how to fix a lot of this I have never been trained to , but it tends to take more time , money , and sometimes it not 100% like new.

Maybe have it make a check to see if anyone has the tech just at the daily upkeep(when its getting worked on), and if none have the tech anymore have it do 1 of 3 options that need to be picked by the leaders before upkeep.( give all bases 24 hour to set option) Have it show somewhere on the base or alerts that you don't have the tech for what ever mod after an upkeep that you don't.
1) 10% damage to the mod,(can only be fixed by someone with the tech when broken) , don't pay upkeep on that mod.(for not repairing it at all)
2) pay 2 times upkeep for that mod.(like paying to have it fixed by someone else)
3) -1% starting mod states every upkeep till you have someone with the tech.( upkeep stays the same and the mod gos back to full power after an upkeep that someone has the tech)

A cavity resonator is a piece in a linear particle accelerator, it's real, not science fiction and this accentuates the point once again lol. My point was that you don't even know what it is, how are you going to fix it, you guys make analogies to mechanical devices when in fact the technology being used here is far beyond anything you can just take apart and figure out.

To create even a half decent vacuum chamber is far more complicated then you know.

Your not a small legion dysonian's you have no idea what it's like for smaller legions this is ONLY for your own selfish gain dressing it up like your HELPING THE GALAXY is just pathetic get your wallet's out if you want bases and want to ruinother legion's production you have to pay for it why should it be easier for YOU and harder for US small legions with higher base upkeep.
My legion's base was built by our OWN legion and 2BIL a day is not spare cash to us unlike higher legions more upkeep on modules will just make it harder for us.