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 damage cap for tiny ship builds NEEDS to go 
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Joined: Tue Aug 09, 2011 2:15 am
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We've been having a fight with a legion and its a good time, nice give and take, but what i'm having a problem with, is that MY damage done TO someone else, is based off of THEIR ship build... these guys have NO DEFENSE, just weapons and hull... not many of them but nice ones,and THATS IT... why should MY damage be lowered for the sake of their small ship build... I built my ship up to do massive damage in PvP AND against npcs...


So to sum up, it just seems unfair that I'M limited by someone else's technical build.

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Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:19 am
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So you're mad because they think a small ship is good and they don't know that in the long run there hurting them self?

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Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:29 am
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The damage cap is based on either decks or level, whichever would be higher, so removing the damage cap based on decks wouldn't help, either their damage cap would be lowered or stay the same. Removing the deck-based cap entirely would lower the cap of nearly everyone in the game.


Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:30 am
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no, i understand the long term disadvantage, but it seems wrong to me that ANYONE of ANY level is only going to hit their ship for X amount based on their DECKS... if they had massive defense, then cool. but just because they play the technicality game...

their ships are for the most part, the same levels as ours are... im hitting a level 192 for 90 damage. ( small build) and a level 191 for nearly 300 (not small)

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Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:32 am
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well, it's first designed to protect newer/poorer players who is lower rank and/or had less AP(due to lack of dyson, for example) so less of bots, androids etc
and ofc, lower tech lvls and stuff

It is now semi-abused by uber tiny build, which function super well up to some point. although they do suffer a "penalty" in having less energy stuff(if they put on any, they are completely defenceless~) and NPC copability etc, so it only works for a short while. I have yet to see one over rank 200 although I can't be sure.

As such, I don't see it really as a game wide problem, so it should ONLY be changed if you can come up with an alternative "nooby protection" of sorts. if not, this is the way it's gonna be~

If you can't, then you got no case


on a random note, frankly, while guarding planet, i won't use hull+weapon build, a hull+shield one will be much more annoying and hard to kill~ it's not gonna do much dmg anyway, just an energy sink

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Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:33 am
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Uy23e wrote:
I have yet to see one over rank 200 although I can't be sure.


I have seen them up to rank 400 , but they can't really do anything in PvP or NPC.

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Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:44 am
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wolfprince01 wrote:
Uy23e wrote:
I have yet to see one over rank 200 although I can't be sure.


I have seen them up to rank 400 , but they can't really do anything in PvP or NPC.


Plus their invasion chances simply suck. 2 Obviation barriers and they're screwed.

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Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:52 am
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Tiny build is just to annoy you in the end they are punishing themselves

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Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:10 am
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Remric wrote:
Tiny build is just to annoy you in the end they are punishing themselves


Don't hint at it just , say it , there masochist.

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Sat Jan 07, 2012 2:53 am
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What if the size of the ship was determined by the decks and say 1/2 of crew... 100 decks 500 Engineers. 2000 Tactical Officers 1750 Helmsmen 1000 Scientists = 2625 + 100 from decks = 2725.

that would protect the noobers from having "too big" of a ship and balance the ultra small ships...cause honestly a tiny ship cant have a very strong power core to to even run the cool gadgests...you can call this the space limiting factor but it just seems wrong to me...

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Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:06 am
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very nice VANIR, since I couldn't think of a compromise, yours seems perfect. i think it would raise everyones damage cap too.. I've only been adding to decks since something like rank 50, and ive still managed to garner ~950 crew from missions and artis. I'll shoot this off to dan for him to mull over.

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Sat Jan 07, 2012 11:52 am
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Vanir wrote:
What if the size of the ship was determined by the decks and say 1/2 of crew... 100 decks 500 Engineers. 2000 Tactical Officers 1750 Helmsmen 1000 Scientists = 2625 + 100 from decks = 2725.

that would protect the noobers from having "too big" of a ship and balance the ultra small ships...cause honestly a tiny ship cant have a very strong power core to to even run the cool gadgests...you can call this the space limiting factor but it just seems wrong to me...


As a Colossal Galaxy Destroyer I'm by no means a small ship build , but this would raise my damage cap to 6 times what it is now. This would make you take more damage from adding helmsmen , it's just counter productive.

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Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:13 pm
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I don't see what the problem is with taking MASSIVE damage from someone who is by definition a MUCH more superior ship, in terms of firepower... you can argue a small ship is harder to hit... but if your rocking a FULL compliment of weapons... (not sure what max with all npc/specials are, but I can already hold 35ish), you can argue that you have enough weapons firing to eventually hit them, and to do massive damage in ONE hit... I'd be alright if someone rank 1200 hit me two or three times and i was dead.... the odds of me showing up on their news feed is NONE ( unless i invade a planet or get alerted)

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Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:16 pm
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icarium81 wrote:
I don't see what the problem is with taking MASSIVE damage from someone who is by definition a MUCH more superior ship, in terms of firepower... you can argue a small ship is harder to hit... but if your rocking a FULL compliment of weapons... (not sure what max with all npc/specials are, but I can already hold 35ish), you can argue that you have enough weapons firing to eventually hit them, and to do massive damage in ONE hit... I'd be alright if someone rank 1200 hit me two or three times and i was dead.... the odds of me showing up on their news feed is NONE ( unless i invade a planet or get alerted)


You don't get it , it would make every ship 4-5 hits to kill. That's how it was with the old damage cap , every ship was a glass cannon because adding hull and shields raised you're damage cap back then. This would make all crew useless.

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Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:37 pm
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and ships of equal rank with roughly the same stats (however they were spent), should be a pretty equal fight... how often are you being bombarded by someone 4 times your level?

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Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:41 pm
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icarium81 wrote:
and ships of equal rank with roughly the same stats (however they were spent), should be a pretty equal fight... how often are you being bombarded by someone 4 times your level?


There are no ships 4 times my rank.
It would make it so ship's 1/4th you're rank could kill you in 4-5 hits if you add crew to damage cap.

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Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:46 pm
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ok i know this is directed about UI due to i know you lot are fighting them and ejjakai is in there.
heres the top faults with small ship builds.

1. slow ranking means that they would most likely quit the game before raching rank 500 due to ships thats ranked 700 and over can see them and whoop them about easy so small ship build is easy kill and wont be able to kill back.

2. low arti shipment so chances are cant get the good stuff.

3. crap at taking planets. so relies on ppl alerting unowned planets for them.

4. research is crap but only good on hull so im betting there planet defense is crap.

5. desperately relies on getting help for planets and artis.

6. i can take out ejjakai now myself last i checked but shes off leaderboard....hmm wonder why.

7. low scan and cloak so again easy to find by much higher ranking players and its practically food for hackers so losing planets by critical hacks must be a common problem.

8. need help with minerals to pay for better planet structures.

9. not liked by everyone

10. no sheilds so constantly repairing hull damage so losing credits

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Sat Jan 07, 2012 12:59 pm
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Legionaire wrote:
ok i know this is directed about UI due to i know you lot are fighting them and ejjakai is in there.
heres the top faults with small ship builds.

1. slow ranking means that they would most likely quit the game before raching rank 500 due to ships thats ranked 700 and over can see them and whoop them about easy so small ship build is easy kill and wont be able to kill back.

2. low arti shipment so chances are cant get the good stuff.

3. crap at taking planets. so relies on ppl alerting unowned planets for them.

4. research is crap but only good on hull so im betting there planet defense is crap.

5. desperately relies on getting help for planets and artis.

6. i can take out ejjakai now myself last i checked but shes off leaderboard....hmm wonder why.

7. low scan and cloak so again easy to find by much higher ranking players and its practically food for hackers so losing planets by critical hacks must be a common problem.

8. need help with minerals to pay for better planet structures.

9. not liked by everyone

10. no sheilds so constantly repairing hull damage so losing credits


Damn right about #9!

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Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:08 pm
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icarium81 wrote:
I don't see what the problem is with taking MASSIVE damage from someone who is by definition a MUCH more superior ship, in terms of firepower... you can argue a small ship is harder to hit... but if your rocking a FULL compliment of weapons... (not sure what max with all npc/specials are, but I can already hold 35ish), you can argue that you have enough weapons firing to eventually hit them, and to do massive damage in ONE hit... I'd be alright if someone rank 1200 hit me two or three times and i was dead.... the odds of me showing up on their news feed is NONE ( unless i invade a planet or get alerted)


You're basically preaching to the converted here, Ic. My old mentor and I went to Dan with that initial problem and it took forever (at least, it seemed like it) for Dan to tweak the Maquis Raider technique to what it is now. Be grateful. Back in the day, Ejjakai and the Trust were really abusing the crap out of that Tiny Build style. As a matter of fact, had it not been for MadHatred's intel on their tactics, HC might have lost that war, but I digress.

This is one of those things we have to take with a grain of salt. It sucks because I understand your logic in this matter. It makes perfect sense. If I decided to play chicken with a Ford F150, I'd say the odds are favorable that the truck could take me out with just one hit.

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Sat Jan 07, 2012 1:13 pm
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They are correct that including crew in the damage cap would make everyone's ships far easier to take out; you'd be taking out small ships faster, but they'd be taking you out plenty fast too. Essentially everyone's ships would just seem really weak if Dan did that.


Sat Jan 07, 2012 4:18 pm
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