No matter what level you are, you have worked hard to make your ship powerful with ship-bots, rescued prisoners, rank points and modules.

Because debuffs can stack, you have made all of of your time spent worthless.

Please fix the debuffs so you can only use one of each of them.

I don't use them and I have had players fight me that use 5 of each , but even stacking them the attack/defense debuffs are not that strong , 5 bring me down to 59% for 25 energy and some players power ranked so they need that for any PVP.
It just shows how weak they are and how easy they will be to kill.

For the scan debuff I say that's to strong to let stack , there are set limits on scan and cloak , with 8 you can hack ANY ship with nothing more then the 50 cloak from a Dark Pyramid and they don't cost anything to use.

I've had player that drop enough on my that I am at about 10% strength. They probably then hit me for my damage cap which is probably pretty high.

No, time spent is not worthless. You're only debuffed by those artifacts when someone else attacks you and decides to use them so. When no one's attacking you and your npc hunting or attacking a planet, the time you spent building your ship is worth it.

I think it's fine the way it is. I occasionally stack debuffs on players much stronger than me to return a red badge hit. Sure, it can be abused. But it gives players a chance against much stronger players.

It takes 21 of 1 kind to drop a stat to 11% , that's 105 energy before even starting to attack. They didn't save any energy(If they didn't it was only 5-10) at that rate , all they saved was repairs from having to take less shots.

They would of needed to start with an attack 2 time you're defense before the debuff's to max damage you every hit.

I get it that sometime for weaker ships to be at par with stronger well planned ships debufs are needed. The only sad thing is the infinite use of the debuff allows players to basically make the ship weaker than a tin can.

I agree that there should be mutiple debuffs on the ship but there has to be limits on how much debuffs can be used at a time. Allowing players to remove 90% of a ships normal strenght is like a slap in the face. It does not matter how much work you put on your ship. All that matters is the other player have artifacts to burn.

How about mutiple debuffs but then diminishing returns. 1st is 10% 2nd is 8% 3rd is 6%...

They kind of work that way now.
If you have 1000 they will lower stats like this.
1st= -100
2nd= -90
3rd= -81
4th= -73
5th= -66
6th= -59
7th= -53
8th= -48
9th= -43
10th= -39
The more you use the less they do.

dun worry Remric if i ever see your ship and plan on a possible disable the only debuffs youll see from me is a Krionite missile and a Inhibitor.
I wont slap you in the face sir.

it already works similarly to this because it's -10% of CURRENT defenses! See here:

uses defences
1 90.00
2 81.00
3 72.90
4 65.61
5 59.05
6 53.14
7 47.83
8 43.05
9 38.74
10 34.87
11 31.38
12 28.24
13 25.42
14 22.88
15 20.59
16 18.53
17 16.68
18 15.01
19 13.51
20 12.16
21 10.94
22 9.85
23 8.86
24 7.98
25 7.18
26 6.46
27 5.81
28 5.23
29 4.71
30 4.24
31 3.82
32 3.43
33 3.09
34 2.78
35 2.50
36 2.25
37 2.03
38 1.82
39 1.64
40 1.48
41 1.33
42 1.20
43 1.08
44 0.97
45 0.87

Thank you for restating what I said and making a bigger chart QCubed.

Miss-read the post, thought you were SUGGESTING that it work like that but it was Remeric. I thought Remeric of all people would know that it worked as shown.

And also I miss-understood your chart at first, I thought you were picking %ages off of the whole, and showing how much defenses would be removed from varying percents, and you were showing only the 10% de-buff, and how much Defenses it would remove at each step..

In mine I am showing exactly what the resultant set of defenses will be in terms of percentages, so it actually IS more useful, as while you are sort of showing the same info, it was not what your chart was actually made to do, it's always best to think of the DEBUFF in terms of the % remaining after the debuff is applied, because it's a simple multiplication you can apply to anyone, if you want the player to have say 50% or less of their current Defenses, you MUST apply 7 or more debuffs. (35 Energy)

If you want the player to have only 10% or less of their defenses, you MUST apply 22 or more debuffs. (110 energy)

-Q

Now do the math... level 800 with 30k combined shield/hull (not my stats but a fair approximation for people at that level), with that many debuffs we can assume he would most likely hit my damage cap.

How much energy would it take him to take me out with spending 110 energy on debuffing vs not debuffing me.

30K combined shield/hull is low for a rank 800 unless they auto ranked the full way , I have more then that and I'm just under rank 600.

There no math to do. You're missing what you want for there attack , starting defense , and damage cap.

None of that should matter. We are going with the notion that at 10% defense left, they are hitting the theoretical damage cap on a rank 800.

Or remind me of the formula and I'll do it.

Edit, found it... assuming 5k decks = 2500 damage cap.

So 30k/2.5k = 12 hits = 60 energy + 110 spend on debuffing = 180 damage to disable a 30k hull/shield ship debuffed vs some number way higher if they didn't stack to infinite.

They HAVE to start with a attack 2 times you're defense BEFORE the debuff's to get max damage every hit. You're not doing math you're making up #'s

Erm, lol, their attack has to be ABOUT 9x to 11x higher than your defense to get MAX Damage every shot. So lets, say 10x, and go with this:

A Rank 100 Player with say 2500 ATK, needs YOUR DFF to be 250 to do max damage.

Lets assume you have 25,000 DFF, that means they need to get you to 1% or less of your DFF using DeBuffs, as you can see this takes 44 Debuffs, which is, 220 energy

now, you assume that it's simply "plus 12 hits for 60 more energy = 280 damage." but there is MORE to consider.

HOWEVER! to only use 12 attacks he ALSO has to get YOUR ATTACK to be low enough that he can even SURVIVE 12 hits from you, because, you, by default are going to be 10 his Puny DFF, lets assume his DFF is 1500, your ATK is 20,000, he will need to debuff your attack 25% just to reach a point where your ATK 10x his DFF.

So at Rank 100, he's probably got 1000 Decks, and maybe 5000 hull + shields, so you can deal 500 damage to him per shot until he debuffs your attack, an d even with him doing max dmg per shot you will kill him in 10 shots, verses his 12.

not only that but he can't attack you at all once his hull is at less than approx 11% of it's max. - haven't spaded this, seems just over 10%, might be as high as 15%, that means either you'll disable him or he'll stop being able to attack until he repairs at about 9-10 shots.

so to make sure you do not do more than about 4000 damage to his ship he will need to buff you another 30%, meaning at least 8 more ATK DEBUFFs he throws at you for 40 more energy, giving a grand total of: approximately 320 energy to get you disabled.

thats, true it's the same as attacking you 64 times, and he'd HAVE to repair every 8-9 shots, and he'd have to probably do more than 64 shots to kite you with NO debuffs.

however, 320 energy is a HUGE outlay for a rank 100 player, for VERY little return, they can get badges for disable, and hack if they waste a large # of additional debuff artifacts, probably not pulling very much, there's no way they will win a raid against your crew, not in a million years.

he'll be able to disable you, what 2x a day max, meanwhile you could use 1 containment cage, or wait 15 minutes until the effects wear off automatically, and do max damage to him in 10 shots, 50 energy, period, and 50 energy means NOTHING at your rank, and he would barely scratch the shields, and you would not even need too debuff him in any way! no repairs, no arties used, no less than 1 hour's energy used.

you could 0 him 6 disables, 6 hacks, and 5 raids, using only 300 energy, no repairs, just shield dmg repaired within an hour, and have all that energy back in 2.5 hours. you could still level that day because you used such a small percentage of your energy in zeroing him, while he probably will need an extra day to level now as he'll take probably 8 hours to recoup 320 energy, have lost a ton of artifacts, and had to repair himself, and gotten VERY little to show for it.

PvP against larger targets only hurts you, and allows them to up their stats.

in Essence what you are worried about, hordes of lowbies 'ganking' high level players is really quite moot, there is nothing broken with this system..

-Q

Of course I'm making up numbers, I don't have solid ones to use. Maybe I'll find someone to do it on.

They don't have to be 'lowbie' to 'gank'. A 500 vs a 1000 or a 600 vs an 800. Being able to stack debuffs make a noticeable and significant difference, wiping away (at least in PvP), much of the effort you put into the game.

Ok lets have 2 made up ships attack a 3rd made up ship then.
Attacking ship: 16,000 attack. Defending ship: 14,000 defense , 2,200 damage cap , and 30K hull/shields.
No debuffs: Damage range= 300-771 (536 average) , Shots to kill= 56 , energy to kill = 280 .
1 debuff(90%): Damage range= 333-848 (591average) , Shots to kill= 51 , energy to kill = 260.
5 debuffs(59%): Damage range= 502-1212 (857 average) , Shots to kill= 36 , energy to kill = 205.
10 debuffs(35%): Damage range= 820-1716 (1268 average) , Shots to kill= 24 , energy to kill = 170.
15 debuffs(21%): Damage range= 1262-2069 (1666 average) , Shots to kill= 19, energy to kill = 170.
20 debuffs(12%): Damage range= 1794-2190 (1992 average) , Shots to kill= 16 , energy to kill = 180.


Attacking ship: 10,000 attack. Defending ship: 14,000 defense , 2,200 damage cap , and 30K hull/shields.
No debuffs: Damage range= 188-494 (341 average) , Shots to kill= 88 , energy to kill = 440.
1 debuff(90%): Damage range= 208-547 (378 average) , Shots to kill= 80 , energy to kill = 405.
5 debuffs(59%): Damage range= 317-812 (565 average) , Shots to kill= 54 , energy to kill = 295.
10 debuffs(35%): Damage range= 528-1262 (895 average) , Shots to kill= 34 , energy to kill = 220.
15 debuffs(21%): Damage range= - (1302 average) , Shots to kill= 24 , energy to kill = 195.
20 debuffs(12%): Damage range= 1349-2105 (1727 average) , Shots to kill= 18 , energy to kill = 190.
25 debuffs(7%): Damage range= 1850-2194 (2022 average) , Shots to kill= 15 , energy to kill = 200.

So in this example if you're attack starts higher then there defense you wast anything past 10 debuffs , and if it starts lower anything past 20 is a wast.

To me this shows that the debuffs are working for the ships they are meant for the weaker ships and that there is a limit , given it's higher then first thought.

There is no limit on who can hit you from an alert and this gives the lower ranks something to fight back with , I have some respect for anyone lower ranked ship that can put up a good fight even if they have to debuff me. They just get a little less respect the more they debuff and none if they smack talk.

Quote for Truth, thanks Wolf.

Also, your attacking ships in all likely hood will want/need to throw some attack Debuffs at the larger ship, which also cost more energy as well. And as I pointed out, the larger ship will have more energy to spare, and by default will have to attack the smaller ship a smaller number of times with less or no debuffs to achieve the same effect, in essence, the smaller ship always needs to outlay A LOT more than the larger ship to compete with the larger ship, even if they use debuffs.

-Q