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 NPC : Hulls vs Shields 
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Joined: Fri Jan 21, 2011 9:05 pm
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I am sure it's been discussed before, but I couldn't find a ref to it...
Why do NPC shields not regenerate ?
If they are not intended to regenerate, why not simply make them hulls for consistency ?

Having regenerating shields on NPC Elites, would force more collaboration, which is good in my eyes.
This means that a "lock" is not guaranteed anymore due to a variable amount of total damage that is required to be done to an Elite due to regenerating Shields.


Tue Jan 15, 2013 7:42 pm
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Joined: Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:15 pm
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BigBadBoris wrote:
I am sure it's been discussed before, but I couldn't find a ref to it...
Why do NPC shields not regenerate ?
If they are not intended to regenerate, why not simply make them hulls for consistency ?

Having regenerating shields on NPC Elites, would force more collaboration, which is good in my eyes.
This means that a "lock" is not guaranteed anymore due to a variable amount of total damage that is required to be done to an Elite due to regenerating Shields.

I agree. This is one of the things that bug me the most about this game..
Would love to see this added.


Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:34 pm
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Maybe I'm just missing something here, but umm....Why??

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Wed Jan 16, 2013 12:54 pm
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Km4cK2 wrote:
Maybe I'm just missing something here, but umm....Why??

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Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:03 pm
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Km4cK2 wrote:
Maybe I'm just missing something here, but umm....Why??


Because Elites are suppose to be....elite. I'd execute an engineer that couldn't get my shields back up if someone shoots me 3 or 4 times and then stops for 6 hrs just to come back and finish me off. That's basically what NPC's do, they just wait to die unless they "Get out of range" by means of expiring.

Elite and Boss shields that regenerate would force more team work, and for all those people that are "bored with the current state of NPCing" and want "new content" or "harder NPC's" would finally get something closer to what there looking for.

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Wed Jan 16, 2013 2:25 pm
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Caladis wrote:
Km4cK2 wrote:
Maybe I'm just missing something here, but umm....Why??


Because Elites are suppose to be....elite. I'd execute an engineer that couldn't get my shields back up if someone shoots me 3 or 4 times and then stops for 6 hrs just to come back and finish me off. That's basically what NPC's do, they just wait to die unless they "Get out of range" by means of expiring.

Elite and Boss shields that regenerate would force more team work, and for all those people that are "bored with the current state of NPCing" and want "new content" or "harder NPC's" would finally get something closer to what there looking for.


I don't understand the sarcastic reference to your shields when they regenerate just fine or how a regenerating shield for NPCs counts as "new content", but ok. I was just wondering why there seems to be a need for NPCs to regenerate shields when it's unnecessary.

So I give a -1 unless someone can give a good reason to why this is needed.

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Wed Jan 16, 2013 3:45 pm
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It would make NPCs more challenging -- good for some, bad for others.

It would force more cooperation within a legion, which can make the game more fun... or super frustrating if you're in a legion where people only check in sporadically.

So while I can see why some people would object, I personally like the idea because of the challenge/cooperation aspect, as well as making combat more consistent (yes, it's easier to kill NPCs due to non-regenerating shields, but it's always kinda bugged me that their shields behave differently, too)...


Wed Jan 16, 2013 6:26 pm
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Pongoloid wrote:
It would make NPCs more challenging -- good for some, bad for others.

It would force more cooperation within a legion, which can make the game more fun... or super frustrating if you're in a legion where people only check in sporadically.

So while I can see why some people would object, I personally like the idea because of the challenge/cooperation aspect, as well as making combat more consistent (yes, it's easier to kill NPCs due to non-regenerating shields, but it's always kinda bugged me that their shields behave differently, too)...


I think you are wrong - twice.

1) NPCs would not be more challenging - only cost more energy to disable them. That is really not a challenge.

2) Cooperation is maybe needed/visible in small legions, where really majority has to join to take out the elite in time. However higher ranked players are mostly competing, who take the first 3 or 10 posts.

NB: Once the lock is there, how you would handle from game developer perspective the unlock, lock back or any such changes? This could actually hurt the spirit of legion, as there could be argues why the first attacker found himself without lock/loot upon disabling the elite NPC - some more repeating and such player will focus his attention elsewhere or take out NPCs without sharing :!:

so idea interesting, indeed.. suggested solution not supported by me. others - well, we will see their comments 8-)

to be constructive - what about a new type of "Supreme NPCs", which could be available for entire legion and each member should have to disable first some guarding ships (protectors), then the main NPC itself? (Like bees and hive). The number of protectors could be equal to legion members or set as fix 50. This could be part of Legion contests.
Thus current Elite NPCs would stay for existing Medal and new type of NPCs would be introduced.

In case curious, what I mean under Legion contests - feel free to read and comment here: viewtopic.php?f=6&t=32376

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Wed Jan 16, 2013 8:16 pm
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Flux wrote:
1) NPCs would not be more challenging - only cost more energy to disable them. That is really not a challenge.
They wouldn't cost more energy if you finished them off quickly, though it would make more of a challenge when it comes to calculating the amount of hits needed to disable, etc.

Of course I'm the kind of player who likes to strategize through in-game number-crunching/micro-managing. If I were to see a tough NPC with major shield power and a cool drop that I wanted to disable, but I only have enough energy for a shot or two, I'd enjoy figuring out what time I'd let my ship charge up until before attempting an attack. To me, it'd be an extra puzzle to figure out, and I'd enjoy it, though I totally get that others would be annoyed by it.

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2) Cooperation is maybe needed/visible in small legions, where really majority has to join to take out the elite in time. However higher ranked players are mostly competing, who take the first 3 or 10 posts.

NB: Once the lock is there, how you would handle from game developer perspective the unlock, lock back or any such changes? This could actually hurt the spirit of legion, as there could be argues why the first attacker found himself without lock/loot upon disabling the elite NPC - some more repeating and such player will focus his attention elsewhere or take out NPCs without sharing :!:
This is true, as well as the problem of lock/unlocking.

You could base it on hull damage -- but that would totally cheat the players who spent energy taking out the shields. You could also base it on "first lock," but due to regeneration, other p

If it were based on proportional lock (total damage counting regeneration), it'd probably be fairest, but it could also cause a lot of hard feelings.

Interesting conversations. I have more questions than answers now.

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to be constructive - what about a new type of "Supreme NPCs", which could be available for entire legion and each member should have to disable first some guarding ships (protectors), then the main NPC itself? (Like bees and hive). The number of protectors could be equal to legion members or set as fix 50. This could be part of Legion contests.
I like this.


Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:20 pm
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If you want truely Elite NPC's then rank up and hit the new ones Dan added. Hitting them and getting a lock on them (and keeping it on one of them) makes me feel like I did something worth bragging about. I mean when you do 150% of the damage on a NPC and five others also get their 20% locks at the same time you will know what I'm talking about. lol A little shield regain will not do anything at all. What maybe a couple thousand an hour? That is nothing at all. So -1 from me.

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Wed Jan 16, 2013 9:22 pm
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a thing not mentioned here :

there's a NPC from a mission - T.O whatever - which has, like, 10k shield and 1k hull, BUT you can neutralize his shield in just one artifact gained from the mission chain.

IF shield is to be removed from NPCs, how they will change this mission chain ? (oh well, just make the artifact bomb the hulls to 90% :P )

Nevertheless, I also wondered why NPC shields won't regenerate ;)


Thu Jan 17, 2013 2:42 am
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Yes, because we all want a Sha'din Hyperport to regenerate half a million Shield while we sleep.

It would also mean that you'd need a lot more Energy to kill it, as the Shield would regenerate as you're hitting it. They already require enough Energy. Lets keep it how it is.

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Thu Jan 17, 2013 10:48 am
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Still no valid answer to the question : if NPCs do not have regenerating shields (for whatever reason.. good or bad), then why not simply give them Hulls , where New Hull = Old Shield + Old Hull ?.. and that fixes the problem.

For consistency sake.

My shields regenerate, other player shields regenerate, Base shields regenerate... BUT NPCs don't... That is just wrong.


Thu Jan 17, 2013 11:54 am
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BigBadBoris wrote:
Still no valid answer to the question : if NPCs do not have regenerating shields (for whatever reason.. good or bad), then why not simply give them Hulls , where New Hull = Old Shield + Old Hull ?.. and that fixes the problem.

For consistency sake.

My shields regenerate, other player shields regenerate, Base shields regenerate... BUT NPCs don't... That is just wrong.


actually, depends how much in details you think about it.
your shield regenerate, because you have on ship equipped Harmonic Resonator.
So taking in consideration, that we have no information about NPC ships equipment, we can also assume, that these do not have any shield generator, thus logically their shields do not regenerate.

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Thu Jan 17, 2013 12:56 pm
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BigBadBoris wrote:
Still no valid answer to the question : if NPCs do not have regenerating shields (for whatever reason.. good or bad), then why not simply give them Hulls , where New Hull = Old Shield + Old Hull ?.. and that fixes the problem.

For consistency sake.

My shields regenerate, other player shields regenerate, Base shields regenerate... BUT NPCs don't... That is just wrong.

I'm sure this question has been asked before. Go search the forum and you'll find you answer.

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Thu Jan 17, 2013 1:26 pm
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