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Offensive artis limit
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Author:  Christian.Carson.37 [ Fri May 31, 2013 7:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Offensive artis limit
EMP Spheres
Disarming Bombs
Positron Clouders
Quantum Flares

These are all offensive artis which will debuff a ship, and you can use as many of them as you want. IMO, I dont think its fair at all that our ships can be debuffed to any level. We work hard to build up our attack and defense to make for a tough disable. Our defense can be debuffed from 50,000, to 10,000 with the right amount of EMP's and energy. I propose a limit of only being able to use 3 - 4 of the artifacts listed above, to protect our hard work. Does anyone else feel the same way I do?
Author:  playret0195x [ Fri May 31, 2013 7:59 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Offensive artis limit
Christian.Carson.37 wrote:
EMP Spheres
Disarming Bombs
Positron Clouders
Quantum Flares

These are all offensive artis which will debuff a ship, and you can use as many of them as you want. IMO, I dont think its fair at all that our ships can be debuffed to any level. We work hard to build up our attack and defense to make for a tough disable. Our defense can be debuffed from 50,000, to 10,000 with the right amount of EMP's and energy. I propose a limit of only being able to use 3 - 4 of the artifacts listed above, to protect our hard work. Does anyone else feel the same way I do?

I think that's why using them costs energy...
Author:  TimeManipulator [ Fri May 31, 2013 8:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Offensive artis limit
Sorry but I dont. I feel that it's their choice to throw as many debuffs on my ship as possible, it just means your ship is better than theirs. Also using a high amount of artifacts will decrease your use for Time Manipulator as 1 Debuff Artifact means 1 Offensive Action. Another thing is... death means nothing, it's how you feel about your ship that matters.
Author:  Kara Thrace [ Fri May 31, 2013 8:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Offensive artis limit
While I like the idea in general, the only problem I see with it involves legion wars. Low rankers have absolutely no chance at disabling high rankers without using the debuffs... so if you take away their opportunity to do so, you effectively cut off their ability to assist their legion in a war.
Author:  LPenguin [ Fri May 31, 2013 9:01 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Offensive artis limit
+111111111:P

How is it fair for someone to throw 50 emp's at mento and brag about disabling him? How hard did he work to get his ship as strong as it is and to have it disabled by a 300 rank player? I have this done to me often also. 20-30 seem to be used on me.
Something needs to change, I have np using arties during war and big conflicts, but for simple bt hunts??? Even during war you should not be able to have so many active emp's or disarming bombs on someone. I used them a lot against TU last yr in our many wars, but I used them because they were online, I was fighting the whole Legion myself and only 4-6 were needed at any given time to disable someone as fast as possible when they were online.
10,20,30,40 active negative arts on you at any given time is way way too many and not necessary. Having maybe 2 active disarming bombs and 4 emp's =6 is more then enough. ANyone who has been in big 1v1 wars or legion wars knows what an arty war can be and it can be fun, U might end up throwing 50 at the person before u are able to disable him and that is just fine, but its the active artifacts on the ship that needs to change. This is just a #, but 6 is a good number to start with, so that's 6 active arties on your ship as a max, but there can be as many thrown at your ship just so long as it does not reach past 6.
I do not think energy should be changed when using them and a 200 rank ship should not have a chance against a 1500 rank ship period.
Author:  senatorhung [ Fri May 31, 2013 10:41 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Offensive artis limit
LPenguin wrote:
a 200 rank ship should not have a chance against a 1500 rank ship period.


and that's just total BS. if you can hit them, they should be able to hit back by any means necessary. (apologies to malcolm x).
Author:  Golgotha [ Fri May 31, 2013 11:18 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Offensive artis limit
senatorhung wrote:
LPenguin wrote:
a 200 rank ship should not have a chance against a 1500 rank ship period.


and that's just total BS. if you can hit them, they should be able to hit back by any means necessary. (apologies to malcolm x).


I totally agree. Its damned rare that i get killed even offline without debuffs, but i think they are a totaly neccessary part of the game, and the balances that make it up.

However, if i want to be helpful to OP, i would suggest a modification to debuffs such as :

The energy cost could rise each time you use a debuff. It could be 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, or 5, 10, 15, 20, etc but this would discourage arti spamming casually while still allowing it when people are really upset.

I do think its unneeded though.
Author:  LPenguin [ Fri May 31, 2013 11:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Offensive artis limit
Its u!!! lol

I ran into Golgotha's ship on bt a few weeks ago and I had to do a double look when I seen the results cause for a 2nd I had thought I might of had an active kvt on me. The results were something like 1800 damage to me and 180 to him and I was fully buffed as far as I could go where my total strength was over 100k. I complemented on his awsome ship and moved on.

6 active emp's is more then enough. I mean thats 10%x6 and u are still telling me more is needed? LOL Heck I think it should be stopped around 40% the more I think about it.

I am not saying to get rid of them nor are other people as they are nice to use in some situations and I am only saying to limit the emp's and disarming bombs of not more then 6 active on any ship at a time. Still throw your cm's and other arties. Not harming the game in any way
Author:  Wolfy Minion [ Fri May 31, 2013 11:29 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Offensive artis limit
Golgotha wrote:
Its damned rare that i get killed even offline without debuffs, but i think they are a totaly neccessary part of the game, and the balances that make it up.


40 energy on debuffs...saves me about 100 in attacks and fewer gemini hits.

No to this idea. I get spammed with 11-13 emps by teneka almost daily when he tries to take me down. If he didn't I would have a good 5 minutes to set traps or repair. Damage caps are fairly static, defense doesn't need to increase as fast as attack to reduce the % of the damage cap inflicted upon an enemy due to the formula so basically over time 2 people with the same art production become harder to kill each other even while off online, disregarding brackets and xcharge cells.
Author:  Uy23e [ Fri May 31, 2013 11:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Offensive artis limit
LPenguin wrote:
Its u!!! lol

I ran into Golgotha's ship on bt a few weeks ago and I had to do a double look when I seen the results cause for a 2nd I had thought I might of had an active kvt on me. The results were something like 1800 damage to me and 180 to him and I was fully buffed as far as I could go where my total strength was over 100k. I complemented on his awsome ship and moved on.

6 active emp's is more then enough. I mean thats 10%x6 and u are still telling me more is needed? LOL Heck I think it should be stopped around 40% the more I think about it.

I am not saying to get rid of them nor are other people as they are nice to use in some situations and I am only saying to limit the emp's and disarming bombs of not more then 6 active on any ship at a time. Still throw your cm's and other arties. Not harming the game in any way


debuff are not additive, it's multiplied. 6 emp would be 0.9^6, which is roughly 52%(roughly, too lazy to actually calculate). So it's a -48% debuff. To achieve -60%, 2 more debuff would be required(more like 2.5, but again too lazy...)
Author:  Annabell [ Fri May 31, 2013 11:57 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Offensive artis limit
LPenguin wrote:
6 active emp's is more then enough. I mean thats 10%x6 and u are still telling me more is needed? LOL Heck I think it should be stopped around 40% the more I think about it.

As Uy23e beat me to saying, Six EMPs =/= 60% Decrease.

That being said, I oppose this suggestion. If someone wants to drop thirty or forty EMPs on me, (you may be surprised but this is not an uncommon occurrence), that's a significant advantage I gain by being able to take those actions in a timely matter while they cannot.
Author:  Tree7304 [ Sat Jun 01, 2013 12:03 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Offensive artis limit
Also -1
I just don't like limiting what we can and can't do in PvP

And penguin. 6 disarming bombs won't bother some people.
Biz needed at least 10 before he would care to cage while he was hitting a base.
Teneka was fine NPCing with 5 on. This was months ago, today he could probably not care about 10
Author:  LPenguin [ Sat Jun 01, 2013 2:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Offensive artis limit
They earned it, they dont deserve to be disabled so easily.U talking about Biz from Ghost? He has a strong ship, A lot stronger then mine and I only needed a handful of emps to disable him last yr in tu. I am also fine npcing on 5 emp's when someone is not leaving me alone, I am nowheres near some of these guys and I can get my atck around 70k while npcing and defense not too far behind with all the buffs.
I been in a lot of wars and enjoyed having to use cages to get rid of the emp's on me and look forward to it in the future, but I disagree big time with being able to use 20-40 on someone to have a chance to disable them. Ko chan kicks my butt and I only need around 3, it could be as much as 5, but If I can not do it in 5 then I dont deserve it.
Thankfully Negron is a Legion mate:P, but I reckon I would need a lot to match his ship,but should I be able to? I think not. He played longer, has a lot more arts per hr and puts in a lot more time+ he is 1500 ranks higher then I am. 5-6 arties+ a cm will help me along against someone bigger, but that is all it should be. I chose to be a strong pvp ship and not an energy auto ranker, so I should not be so severely punished against someone with a lesser ship.
Author:  SpaceCaseAce [ Mon Jun 03, 2013 5:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Offensive artis limit
Kara Thrace wrote:
While I like the idea in general, the only problem I see with it involves legion wars. Low rankers have absolutely no chance at disabling high rankers without using the debuffs... so if you take away their opportunity to do so, you effectively cut off their ability to assist their legion in a war.




-1000000000000 to this idea

I greatly disagree with this suggestion and Kara hit the nail on the head here. My legion has been in many wars, we're in 1 now and being one of the lowest ranked ships participating (Im rank 380 and have to fight ships anywhere from rank 500 to 1200) EMPs and Disarming Bombs are the ONLY way I can compete.
Do you people not realize the beauty of this game? given enough energy, artis and time ANY ship can disable ANY OTHER ship in this game. Because of EMPs, disarming bombs, ect I have been able to stand toe to toe against high ranking ships, including ranks 1000+.Even while they are online. These artis balance the game.Smaller ships and legions MUST have a way to defend themselves against high ranking ships and legions. Putting limits on the number of these artis you can use is just a bad idea.
Author:  Clangeddin [ Mon Jun 03, 2013 6:19 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Offensive artis limit
SpaceCaseAce wrote:
Kara Thrace wrote:
While I like the idea in general, the only problem I see with it involves legion wars. Low rankers have absolutely no chance at disabling high rankers without using the debuffs... so if you take away their opportunity to do so, you effectively cut off their ability to assist their legion in a war.




-1000000000000 to this idea

I greatly disagree with this suggestion and Kara hit the nail on the head here. My legion has been in many wars, we're in 1 now and being one of the lowest ranked ships participating (Im rank 380 and have to fight ships anywhere from rank 500 to 1200) EMPs and Disarming Bombs are the ONLY way I can compete.
Do you people not realize the beauty of this game? given enough energy, artis and time ANY ship can disable ANY OTHER ship in this game. Because of EMPs, disarming bombs, ect I have been able to stand toe to toe against high ranking ships, including ranks 1000+.Even while they are online. These artis balance the game.Smaller ships and legions MUST have a way to defend themselves against high ranking ships and legions. Putting limits on the number of these artis you can use is just a bad idea.


I have no problem with spamming .. however I have always suggested .. that using an artifact on my ship should result in return fire from my ship.. so if you're firing your laser and photon beams at my ship .. I can respond .. but if you are merely launching torpedoes, dropping bombs, launching spheres, at my ship.. I shouldn't be able to return fire. thats bs :) So treat using an artifact as if you clicked on the attack button and let me open fire on your ship in response..
Author:  LPenguin [ Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:00 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Offensive artis limit
So we have 300 rank players thinking they should be competing with 1k-1500 rank ships? Again why go strength when it just be better to go energy and use 30 emp's on the strong ships. I am all for using cm's unlimited and using emp's and disarming bombs, but with a limit on how much can be active on any 1 ship for the last 2
Author:  thunderbolta [ Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:17 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Offensive artis limit
It costs energy for a reason. It also (more importantly) digs into your TM cap, so it's hardly something that doesn't come freely.

-1
Author:  Chloron [ Tue Jun 04, 2013 12:47 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Offensive artis limit
LPenguin wrote:
How is it fair for someone to throw 50 emp's at mento and brag about disabling him?...

I didn't brag, but that's how I chose to get my 5k Raid medal :D
Author:  Wolfy Minion [ Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:08 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Offensive artis limit
LPenguin wrote:
How is it fair for someone to throw 50 emp's at mento and brag about disabling him?...


How is it fair that someone who just started can never catch up to Mento in terms of strength just because they just started?

It closes the gap for those who have played longer and newbies.
Author:  Dave_smith354 [ Tue Jun 04, 2013 1:30 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Offensive artis limit
If you apply this to clouders and flares, the "Firewall, what firewall?" medal becomes near-impossible for all but the lowest ranked players.
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