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 Module Idea - Point defense cannons 
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Joined: Sun Apr 07, 2013 1:22 pm
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Point Defense Cannons
Size 30
adds 100 attack and 50 scan
Reduces the penalty to hit smaller ship classes by 5%
(limit 4)

Positive comments please... :D


Wed Dec 10, 2014 5:42 pm
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Joined: Sun Aug 26, 2012 7:06 am
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Ravinice wrote:
Point Defense Cannons
Size 30
adds 100 attack and 50 scan
Reduces the penalty to hit smaller ship classes by 5%
(limit 4)

Positive comments please... :D

I'd be interested, but you need to explain highlighted bit better. There is no "penalty" hitting small ships, its just the mechanics of the games, called the damage cap. So do you mean increase the damage cap by 5%? And if it doesn't apply to all ships, how do you qualify "smaller ship classes", true SSB's with with decks = rank +19??? decks = rank x 2

And you know the SSB's will not like this at all, right :D

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Wed Dec 10, 2014 5:50 pm
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PvP Damage Cap Formula
The current PvP damage cap formula is the LARGER of the following two possible formulas:
Decks / 2
(Rank + 19) / 2

A ship that minimizes their damage cap using either formula is considered a small ship build or SSB.
The PvP damage cap is a critical element of the PvP combat formula that determines how much damage you actually do to an enemy ship.
Damage per shot = damagecap * tanh[ attack*(random(0.6 to 1.666)) / (defense*5) ]
Damage per shot = damagecap * tanh[ attack/defense * (random(0.12 to 0.32)) ]


So yes the module would effect the calculated damage cap by 5% (per Module)

For the high rank SSB community to be able to take out a colossal super galaxy destroyer with a frigate is insane...
Its all very David vs Goliath, but in most sci-fi's the ships the size of a planet would have more than a handful of weapons, they would be bristling with defenses and be nearly indestructible

Apart from the small deliberate weakness (exhaust port) of-course :geek:

This module example:

So currently:
1000 / 2 = 500
(1000 + 19) / 2 = 510


+5% gives you:
1000 / 2 +5% = 525
(1000 + 19) / 2 +5% = 535


+10% gives you:
1000 / 2 +10% = 550
(1000 + 19) / 2 +10% = 560


SO +15% gives you:
1000 / 2 +15% = 575
(1000 + 19) / 2 +15% = 586


SO +20% gives you:
1000 / 2 +20% = 600
(1000 + 19) / 2 +20% = 611


So Not a massive difference, but enough...


Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:30 pm
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actualy a 5% (20% for a full set) increase in dammage cap will hardly matter for SSB ships..

against a rank 2000 SSB ship, that will rougthly increase the cap from 1000 dam pr hit, to 1200 dammage pr hit
against a huge ship with 5000+ decks, it makes a difrence as that increase the cap from 5.000 to 6.000 dammage pr hit

so this is actualy going to hurt huge ships more then SSB ships

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Wed Dec 10, 2014 6:36 pm
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DarkMar wrote:
actualy a 5% (20% for a full set) increase in dammage cap will hardly matter for SSB ships..

against a rank 2000 SSB ship, that will rougthly increase the cap from 1000 dam pr hit, to 1200 dammage pr hit
against a huge ship with 5000+ decks, it makes a difrence as that increase the cap from 5.000 to 6.000 dammage pr hit

so this is actualy going to hurt huge ships more then SSB ships


I wouldn't set the mechanic like that.

I'd call this 'EHP' - Effective Hit Points (or Hull Points, whatever you like) borrowing from Warcraft III/DotA Forum.

For SSB, having 10,000 hull and 500 damage cap would mean you must take 20 hits to be disabled.
For huge ship, having 10,000 hull and 2,000 damage cap would mean you must take 5 hits to be disabled.

This % bonus should be applied to the EHP instead of the damage cap directly. Meaning a 10% bonus means you will require 10% less hit to be disabled, hence the SSB will now only require 18 hits instead of 20, while the huge ship 4.5 hits instead of 5.

So, a x % bonus translates into : x / (100-x) bonus damage cap
Ex :
a 10% translates into 1/9 or 11.11% bonus damage cap
a 20% translates into 2/8 or 25% bonus damage cap

Of course, multiple bonus will stack diminishingly (so there will be no 50% bonus, which translates to 100% bonus or double damage cap)
-----------------------------------------
This is better than increasing damage cap, because like DarkMar pointed out, it will only hurt huge ships more than SSB.


Wed Dec 10, 2014 7:31 pm
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that is presuming you have enougth attack to actualy hit the dammage cap
in reality you can easily end up with the senario, that a large ship hit the cap on a SSB ship, and the SSB does 50% to 80% of the cap pr hit to the huge ship due to high defence

so lets presume both ships have 100.000 hull and 500 cap for the SSB vs a 3.000 cap for the huge ship

so what you might be looking at is:
100.000 / 500 = 200 hits to kill the SSB ship
vs
100.000 / (3.000 * 0.5) = 67 hits to kill the huge ship
(or 100.000 / 3.000 = 34 hits if you hit the cap)

increase the cap and it
100.000 / 600 = 167 hits for the SSB
vs
100.000 / (3600 * 0.5) = 56 hits
(or 100.000/3600 = 28 hits if you hit the cap)


if we go by your EHP module, it is
200 * 0.8 = 160 hits for the SSB
and
67 * 0.8 = 54 hits for the huge ship
(or 34 * 0.8 = 28 hit if you hit the cap)


so I dont see mutch difrence betwen just increasing the Cap and using your EHP model

and unless you put a max deck, where this module no longer have an effect
say decks > then 1.5 * your rank - you will still end up making huge ships more easy to kill for SSB ships

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Wed Dec 10, 2014 8:09 pm
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We can make this mod only accessible to large ships: something like this mod gains the effect if the player has unlocked It's Huge! medal.


Fri Dec 12, 2014 12:51 am
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If it just affects SSBs then this would be unfair. But balances out if it affects all ships. It will make it easier to disable SSBs because (as pointed out) less hits to disable, whereas it doesn't have much of an effect on LSBs who can be easily taken out already.

This module would have to be accessible to all players, SSBs and LSBs alike. It would certainly make PvP against SSBs a bit easier.

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Fri Dec 12, 2014 8:16 pm
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that's the hope... just to make the lsb a bit more comptitive as atm they are just super giant floating targets


Sun Dec 21, 2014 3:28 pm
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you would have to make the damage inversely related to the amount of of decks they have. so less decks more damage, more decks less damage.


Sun Dec 21, 2014 5:32 pm
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Or maybe just introduce a reward for the 4400 decks medal for a weapon which gives a % attack boost? Only LSBs/MSBs are going to get this, really.

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Sun Dec 21, 2014 8:09 pm
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Malevolentia wrote:
Or maybe just introduce a reward for the 4400 decks medal for a weapon which gives a % attack boost? Only LSBs/MSBs are going to get this, really.


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or whatever...


Mon Dec 22, 2014 2:17 am
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Based on the current damage formula, this would simply increase all damage dealt by the specific %, whether or not you are hitting cap is irrelevant, as long as the effect is being applied. It's even really irrelevant whether the ship is SSB or MSB, it's a % reduction on shot required, the net value might differ due to ship build in general(it would work just great against a MSB that have a HUGE hp pool), but it's the same % across all ships.

If you really want to make this anti-SSB, it would have to be something like this:
the effect only apply if target ship is NOT debuffed, you may select whether or not to apply the effect, if you apply it, it will +5% damage cap for -10% PvP attack (per module). That way, it'd only really help if you are hitting cap(or close to it) such that even losing the attack would be beneficial.

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Mon Dec 22, 2014 4:51 am
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Malevolentia wrote:
Or maybe just introduce a reward for the 4400 decks medal for a weapon which gives a % attack boost? Only LSBs/MSBs are going to get this, really.


Like this idea. Although the really high rank ssb's will get this eventually as well.

Another idea, the module gives a % attack boost to the ship that has a larger deck to rank ratio. Effectively this should make it so if you attack someone with a higher damage cap than yourself, you don't get the % boost, but if you attack a ship with a lower damage cap than yourself, you get the % defense boost. On the other side, if someone attacks you who has a lower damage cap than you, you get the boost. If someone attacks you who has a higher damage cap than you, you don't.

In theory everyone could be able to use this, but it would give advantages to and build up the LSB's as well, while not necessarily nerfing the ssb's.


Mon Dec 22, 2014 8:34 am
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Shadeslayer wrote:
Malevolentia wrote:
Or maybe just introduce a reward for the 4400 decks medal for a weapon which gives a % attack boost? Only LSBs/MSBs are going to get this, really.


Like this idea. Although the really high rank ssb's will get this eventually as well.

Another idea, the module gives a % attack boost to the ship that has a larger deck to rank ratio. Effectively this should make it so if you attack someone with a higher damage cap than yourself, you don't get the % boost, but if you attack a ship with a lower damage cap than yourself, you get the % defense boost. On the other side, if someone attacks you who has a lower damage cap than you, you get the boost. If someone attacks you who has a higher damage cap than you, you don't.

In theory everyone could be able to use this, but it would give advantages to and build up the LSB's as well, while not necessarily nerfing the ssb's.


Eventually everybody's a SSB, so that point is kind of moot. There is only so much deck space worth of modules in the game. There are currently a total of just four players in the game highly ranked enough that they could be SSBs and also have the 4400 decks medal, an additional 25 who are half-way there.

"Keep it simple, stupid." - They

Just a flat out percentage boost from a weapon you get upon hitting 4400 decks. Easy.

I'd propose some BIG sounding gun that in addition to being big, also takes up a lot of decks. Like 200. Call it a Mass Driver, because these are actual things.

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Last edited by Malevolentia on Tue Dec 23, 2014 12:31 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Mon Dec 22, 2014 10:42 am
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+1 to necromancer's idea. Easy, straight forward and feeds the idea of helping LSB be more pliable.

I take minimal issue with the idea that all ships are ssb eventually. The game life of players and time for most to hit such a level is pretty lengthy. So for most of the game time for all resets and smart true sSB, the deck damage advantage will , for literal purposes, always apply.

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Tue Dec 23, 2014 2:11 am
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