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Are Thetas worth it?
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Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 4:30 am Posts: 168 
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 I have set some pretty hefty rank 300 ship strength goals, and I've been debating upgrading to Heavy Thetas from Heavy Null Rays. I'm currently sitting at 6170 at Rank 233, unbuffed, no race bonuses.
Heavy Null Ray x7, Sniper Drone, Dominion Cannon - Mark III x4, Radiant Surge Cannon - Mark III, Cerulean Fighter, Composite Ray - Type D, Vortul Blast Phaser x4, Ion Pulse Ballistae x2, Radiant Surge Cannon, Lazuli Mind Controller x2, Prototype Mech XV Those are my current weapons I'm running. Along with 2213 T.Os. I don't have enough medal points currently for dom upgrades, so aside from Rescued Prisoners, I don't know where to squeeze more attack out of. If I upgraded to 7 of them (eventually will be 8, but using saving ship bots for Velox Thrusters ATM), my upkeep would jump almost 1.4B credits. Which would land me around 2.4 bil, for an additional 400 attack. Is it worth at this point? Or is it better to just stick with the Heavy Nulls, get the 8th one on, and rely on other NPC based weapons and T.Os? I am at 475 medal points, so Auto Blasters are out of the question right now. With syncopated platings, it would me at an upkeep of around 3 bil, but my mining is at 4615/hr, so I think I'd have it covered, with credit gain. |
| Mon Feb 17, 2014 1:15 am |
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 Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:54 am Posts: 988
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Thetas are more deck-efficient than Nulls, yet way more affordable than Quasis. Max a few Toxics (or buy them -- they're cheap), and you should be able to afford Thetas without any prob.
As far as maxing Thetas... I guess? If you're worried about dilluting and polluting your pwecious arti-per-planet by having a bunch of Toxics and Irradiateds in the pool, they are prolly the only way to go, but it's really not that hard to make more mining than you'll ever need in this game, even with an ungodly amount of upkeep and invasion cost ('course then you'll need to consider storage, too). I'd definitely keep that in mind before you commit to upgrading any specific type of researched weapon. |
| Mon Feb 17, 2014 3:44 pm |
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 Joined: Sat Aug 25, 2012 11:11 pm Posts: 444 Location: Where are the QSES? AMIRITE??? AMIRITE???Who is "the fly"?!How long can you make this?
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I did what pongoloid described at about rank 330, I picked up a bunch of toxics and switched out 8 heavy nulls for 8 heavy thetas. I shot my mining up to 8k/hr, but I was also supporting Syncopateds and Eexergonic inverters among other things and I did fine. Considering your rank and current attack if you're just upping your attack to up your attack, I don't think you should do it. If you have no problem pvping/npcing I don't think it would be worth it to put a burden on yourself like that with the upkeep.
xmoonxlitxwalkx wrote: Or is it better to just stick with the Heavy Nulls, get the 8th one on, and rely on other NPC based weapons and T.Os? I am at 475 medal points, so Auto Blasters are out of the question right now. With syncopated platings, it would me at an upkeep of around 3 bil, but my mining is at 4615/hr, so I think I'd have it covered, with credit gain. Why not work on the medal points a little bit more? If you do decide to go to thetas pick up two toxics or so for breathing room with invasions/colonizations/repairs and other stuff of the sort. |
| Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:07 pm |
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 Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:42 am Posts: 1148
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Pongoloid wrote: Thetas are more deck-efficient than Nulls, yet way more affordable than Quasis. Max a few Toxics (or buy them -- they're cheap), and you should be able to afford Thetas without any prob. As far as maxing Thetas... I guess? If you're worried about dilluting and polluting your pwecious arti-per-planet by having a bunch of Toxics and Irradiateds in the pool, they are prolly the only way to go, but it's really not that hard to make more mining than you'll ever need in this game, even with an ungodly amount of upkeep and invasion cost ('course then you'll need to consider storage, too). I'd definitely keep that in mind before you commit to upgrading any specific type of researched weapon. This is actually untrue so please do not give out false information to people, It is actually impossible for your mineral upkeep to keep up with invasion costs due to the exponential growth of planet invasion costs. That said The question are theta's worth is really a moot point you know what attack they give you and you know the cost of them whether or not that is worth it to you is really something only you can decide. _________________   |
| Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:29 pm |
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Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 4:30 am Posts: 168
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I have 2 more maxed toxics coming soon, and just got an 18x Irradiated as well, along with 3 other maxed toxics, so hopefully, along with other mining slots I should be fine. I guess I should start upgrading. Especially cause I can start using havoc coils, possibly, on the Thetas.
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| Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:38 pm |
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Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 4:30 am Posts: 168
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ShadowsPoison wrote: I did what pongoloid described at about rank 330, I picked up a bunch of toxics and switched out 8 heavy nulls for 8 heavy thetas. I shot my mining up to 8k/hr, but I was also supporting Syncopateds and Eexergonic inverters among other things and I did fine. Considering your rank and current attack if you're just upping your attack to up your attack, I don't think you should do it. If you have no problem pvping/npcing I don't think it would be worth it to put a burden on yourself like that with the upkeep. xmoonxlitxwalkx wrote: Or is it better to just stick with the Heavy Nulls, get the 8th one on, and rely on other NPC based weapons and T.Os? I am at 475 medal points, so Auto Blasters are out of the question right now. With syncopated platings, it would me at an upkeep of around 3 bil, but my mining is at 4615/hr, so I think I'd have it covered, with credit gain. Why not work on the medal points a little bit more? If you do decide to go to thetas pick up two toxics or so for breathing room with invasions/colonizations/repairs and other stuff of the sort. I'm mostly upgrading the attack because I want to start being more efficient and be able to disable the people higher up in range, along with killing NPCs like Assassins and others, in less shots, my defense is being upgraded pretty heavily as well, as in general I feel kind of vulnerable right now  |
| Mon Feb 17, 2014 4:40 pm |
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Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:54 am Posts: 988
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Fireblade225 wrote: This is actually untrue so please do not give out false information to people, It is actually impossible for your mineral upkeep to keep up with invasion costs due to the exponential growth of planet invasion costs.  Christ, who died and made you forum schoolmarm? You do realize that she ranks less than 1x per day and is under rank 250, right? Unless she radically changes her playstyle and/or Galaxy Legion is still here five years from now, this will never be an issue for her. But yes, it's true. If she starts ranking 4x a day, colonizes and invades each and every day to keep planet slots full, and refuses to augment income through other sources it will be impossible to keep up on mining alone, and very quickly. But of course that's not the case here, and likely never will be. That said, I am deeply sorry for spreading false information and do sincerely hope you find the space in your heart to forgive me someday.  |
| Mon Feb 17, 2014 6:54 pm |
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 Joined: Fri May 14, 2010 7:30 pm Posts: 1529
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I did it because I was flowing in money. Im at 30.1 Billion upkeep. At 250 I wouldn't do it. You would cover the difference in TOs you make with Rescue Prisoners and levels.
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| Mon Feb 17, 2014 7:59 pm |
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Joined: Fri Dec 09, 2011 5:47 pm Posts: 1513
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Pongoloid wrote: Christ, who died and made you forum schoolmarm? It's actually, "Christ, who died and made you righteous through His atoning sacrifice." But since you can do all things through Him, a forum schoolmarm is also a possibility. _________________ XxDarthDexterxX wrote: You deserve a cookie, and earn yourself one cookie point.  |
| Mon Feb 17, 2014 8:21 pm |
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Joined: Wed Nov 16, 2011 1:42 am Posts: 1148
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Pongoloid wrote: Fireblade225 wrote: This is actually untrue so please do not give out false information to people, It is actually impossible for your mineral upkeep to keep up with invasion costs due to the exponential growth of planet invasion costs. Christ, who died and made you forum schoolmarm? You do realize that she ranks less than 1x per day and is under rank 250, right? Unless she radically changes her playstyle and/or Galaxy Legion is still here five years from now, this will never be an issue for her. But yes, it's true. If she starts ranking 4x a day, colonizes and invades each and every day to keep planet slots full, and refuses to augment income through other sources it will be impossible to keep up on mining alone, and very quickly. But of course that's not the case here, and likely never will be. That said, I am deeply sorry for spreading false information and do sincerely hope you find the space in your heart to forgive me someday. Whether or not it is relevant to the player wasn't the issue the fact that the statement was untrue was regardless of context you wish to place it in. And she's says at the very top she is setting some hefty goals for herself so surely she would want to lay the groundwork for becoming a high rank rather than have it creep up and have to take radical changes to her playstyle further down the line. _________________ |
| Tue Feb 18, 2014 6:20 am |
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Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:54 am Posts: 988
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Fireblade225 wrote: Whether or not it is relevant to the player wasn't the issue the fact that the statement was untrue was regardless of context you wish to place it in. If she does decide to fill up all planet slots and rank at a faster pace, I'm sure it won't be some kinda terrible system shock. It's not like colonization/invasion costs are invisible or hit you all at once. You can see them grow each time you take a new planet and adjust accordingly with plenty of warning. |
| Tue Feb 18, 2014 4:28 pm |
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Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 4:30 am Posts: 168
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Pongoloid wrote: Fireblade225 wrote: Whether or not it is relevant to the player wasn't the issue the fact that the statement was untrue was regardless of context you wish to place it in. If she does decide to fill up all planet slots and rank at a faster pace, I'm sure it won't be some kinda terrible system shock. It's not like colonization/invasion costs are invisible or hit you all at once. You can see them grow each time you take a new planet and adjust accordingly with plenty of warning. Well mostly I want to set the ground work to do autorank talth, or at least do a LOT of NPCing, while still having a formidable ship that can handle a majority of PvP aspects, as well as allow me to take nicer worlds. With a handful of planet slots open right now, there's no point in me ranking real fast, until those planet slots are filled-and with good planets as well! |
| Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:37 pm |
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 Joined: Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:25 am Posts: 2360 Location: New York
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to place it plainly as numbers to settle the argument, as this is something ive been thinking over myself as i progress in rank, and look at how to allocate parts on my ship :
if my upkeep and attack numbers are off, sorry I do not have a fully upgraded theta with havoc coils just going off base x2. Heavy Thetacron Cannon Attack +358 100% upgraded >> 716 size 51 full set >> x8 >> 408 deck spaces. regular set >> 2864 attack full upgraded set >> 5728 attack upkeep per piece : 260M/day upkeep per set : 2.08B/day upgrade per piece : 520M/day upgrade per set : 4.16B/day crew >> free space >> 0 upkeep >> 0 upgrade >> none ( except anubix which covered below : ) theta regular after anubix : 368.74 attack theta set after anubix : 2949.92 upgrade after anubix : 737.48 upgrade set after anubix : 5899.84 So you can see how this will eventually have diminishing returns, when it comes to deck / efficiency when you could have just added more crew with higher arti. so the question becomes, do you want to increase your ship size, and your daily upkeep to accomidate something that will be only be a miniscule part of your overall attack in the long run? << wish I had done this before having a big honking ship. _________________   |
| Tue Feb 18, 2014 5:44 pm |
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 Joined: Sat Jul 02, 2011 6:52 pm Posts: 1663 Location: where the dead ships dwell
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From another post I made, should help the curious decide:
Edit, important note: the upkeep per attack column factors in the 3% Anubix bonus and the Ancient Crystal Foci and Crimson Obelisk temp buffs Code: Version Type Attack Upkeep Upk/ATK Prisoner Equiv; PE for 8 Autocannon 1 15 13 1 2 Heavy Autocannon 2 30 13 1 3 Light Mass Driver 3 50 14 1 4 Mass Driver 5 70 12 1 7 Heavy Mass Driver 7 98 12 2 10 Light Laser Cannon 12 192 13 2 16 Laser Cannon 15 269 15 3 20 Heavy Laser Cannon 18 375 18 3 24 Light Ion Cannon 25 740 25 5 34 Ion Cannon 29 1000 29 5 39 Heavy Ion Cannon 33 1400 36 6 44 Light Plasma Cannon 42 2800 56 7 56 Plasma Cannon 47 4000 72 8 63 Heavy Plasma Cannon 52 5600 91 9 70 Light Phase Cannon 63 10900 145 11 84 Phase Cannon 69 15200 185 12 92 Heavy Phase Cannon 75 21400 240 13 100 Light Graviton Shearer 88 41900 400 15 118 Graviton Shearer 95 58600 519 16 127 Heavy Graviton Shearer 102 82000 676 17 136 Light Disruptor Cannon 117 160000 1,150 20 156 Disruptor Cannon 125 225000 1,513 21 167 Heavy Disruptor Cannon 133 315000 1,991 23 178 Light Quantum Devastator 150 617500 3,460 25 200 Quantum Devastator 159 860000 4,547 27 212 Heavy Quantum Devastator 168 1200000 6,004 28 224 Light Singularity Launcher 187 2370000 10,653 32 250 Singularity Launcher 197 3320000 14,166 33 263 Heavy Singularity Launcher 207 4650000 18,883 35 276 Light Antiproton Cannon 228 9150000 33,734 38 304 Antiproton Cannon 239 12750000 44,843 40 319 Heavy Antiproton Cannon 250 17900000 60,186 42 334 Light Null Ray 274 35000000 107,374 46 366 Null Ray 287 49000000 143,514 48 383 Heavy Null Ray 300 67500000 189,131 50 400 Light Thetacron Cannon 328 132500000 339,565 55 438 Thetacron Cannon 343 187500000 459,503 58 458 Heavy Thetacron Cannon 358 260000000 610,480 60 478 Light Quasi-Chaotic Blaster 391 510000000 1,096,413 66 522 Quasi-Chaotic Blaster 409 725000000 1,490,032 69 546 Heavy Quasi-Chaotic Blaster 427 1025000000 2,017,794 72 570  Think I'll post it in the charts thread too just so I can find it easier. _________________   Last edited by ICBLF on Wed Feb 19, 2014 9:00 pm, edited 1 time in total. |
| Wed Feb 19, 2014 4:24 am |
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Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 4:30 am Posts: 168
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Thank you so much for that chart! I think I'm just going to stick with nulls for now. Then I could stay within my 1200 deck cap without going over. I added on another null, as my continuum parsers are going bye bye for my Velox Thrusters, so I think for now I'm going to rule out the Thetas. I like that the Nulls aren't too bad upkeep wise for their attack, and although the attack gained from the Thetas is really nice, I think I'm going to wait them out-for now. 2.08B for all 8+what I have now would put me at almost 4B, and my mining isn't nearly enough lol.
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| Wed Feb 19, 2014 5:47 pm |
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Joined: Fri Dec 28, 2012 3:54 am Posts: 988
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Another advantage of going with Nulls that hasn't been mentioned is that their attack is even faster to replace with prisoners if/when you decide to drop researched weapons completely (232 fewer rank points than Thetas, 520 fewer than Quasis).
Unless Raix or some other new release somehow adds a % buff or ability to researched Weapons/Defense/Hull/Shields (yes, please!), unless you are sure that you're going to make it to rank 6,000 someday (wow!), unless you must have the "It's Huge!" medal (compensating?), or unless you are a module collector (completist!), I can't think of any super compelling reason to keep your researched modules long term (outside of scan/cloak, of course). I was on Quasis when I scrapped 'em (1720 rank points without taking Havoc Coils into account); would have been a much easier road back to respectability had I done it at a lower tier, or simply never bothered with them at all. Just something to consider. I can't think of very many smart players who started in the last 18 months who plan on keeping their researched guns/defense/hull/shields permanently, as current game mechanics cause them to lose long-term value. I mean, what would you pick between unlimited attack/defense/health benefits through artifact production and finite attack/defense/health that costs you credits every day and permanently increases your ship's capacity to receive damage?  |
| Wed Feb 19, 2014 7:44 pm |
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Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 4:30 am Posts: 168
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Pongoloid wrote: Another advantage of going with Nulls that hasn't been mentioned is that their attack is even faster to replace with prisoners if/when you decide to drop researched weapons completely (232 fewer rank points than Thetas, 520 fewer than Quasis). Unless Raix or some other new release somehow adds a % buff or ability to researched Weapons/Defense/Hull/Shields (yes, please!), unless you are sure that you're going to make it to rank 6,000 someday (wow!), unless you must have the "It's Huge!" medal (compensating?), or unless you are a module collector (completist!), I can't think of any super compelling reason to keep your researched modules long term (outside of scan/cloak, of course). I was on Quasis when I scrapped 'em (1720 rank points without taking Havoc Coils into account); would have been a much easier road back to respectability had I done it at a lower tier, or simply never bothered with them at all. Just something to consider. I can't think of very many smart players who started in the last 18 months who plan on keeping their researched guns/defense/hull/shields permanently, as current game mechanics cause them to lose long-term value. I mean, what would you pick between unlimited attack/defense/health benefits through artifact production and finite attack/defense/health that costs you credits every day and permanently increases your ship's capacity to receive damage? Of course I want to go with the cheaper unlimited route. But being as I am only 280 something days old, got some time before I get there lol. |
| Wed Feb 19, 2014 11:44 pm |
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 Joined: Sat Oct 15, 2011 5:09 am Posts: 3472
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here's my tweak of ICBLF's chart with the addition of some of the non.researched weapons.
 note that rescued prisoners would be on the bottom at the very very far right  _________________ Rank 3950 Litheor Governor 100% DCR r385-r2200 GL Marauder #26 _____________  PvP leaderboards: 70212 raids: #1; 40852 kills: #1; 96377 hacks: #3; |
| Thu Feb 20, 2014 5:00 am |
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