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Invasion Buff NOT Working?
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Author:  Annabell [ Fri May 23, 2014 7:22 am ]
Post subject:  Invasion Buff NOT Working?
It was noted recently that invasions didn't seem to be giving us the same numbers in game as we expected, so tonight I ran the math with an invasion calculator, as well as longhand, and am fairly confident that the issue lies in either the Bane Shriek : Invade +5% or the Probability Jump : Invade +5% (it's very unlikely to be the Ancient Crystal Foci because of where that factors into the Invasion Attack formula), one of which isn't working in the Invasion Equation at all.

The numbers given in game reflect an Invasion Chance that's 5% lower the number given by doing the math longhand or via an invasion calculator spreadsheet, so if you're expecting 50%, you get 48% in game, or if you're expecting 89%, you get 85% in game, etc.

Please take a look so that we're not excited the Alarri rolled in our favor only to have the bonus be cosmetic, or far worse, that we didn't pay a bunch of Galaxy Points for a phantom ability. Thanks.
Author:  Malevolentia [ Fri May 23, 2014 11:45 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Invasion Buff NOT Working
Perhaps it adds 5% of your base attack to invasion attack or something...

I'm not actually 100% sure what you were expecting to get compared to normal. Do you have a 45% chance which you expected to hit 50% and only actually gave you 48%?
Author:  ShadowsPoison [ Fri May 23, 2014 2:27 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Invasion Buff NOT Working
Malevolentia wrote:
Perhaps it adds 5% of your base attack to invasion attack or something...

I'm not actually 100% sure what you were expecting to get compared to normal. Do you have a 45% chance which you expected to hit 50% and only actually gave you 48%?

I believe annabell means exactly what she says, that a 5% buff (as in x1.05 to your invade attack, not +5% to your invade chance) is not being applied. A 48% invade chance is 5% lower than 50% and so is a 85% to an 89%.
Please correct me if I'm wrong/misunderstood this
Author:  Annabell [ Fri May 23, 2014 7:54 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Invasion Buff NOT Working
ShadowsPoison wrote:
Malevolentia wrote:
Perhaps it adds 5% of your base attack to invasion attack or something...

I'm not actually 100% sure what you were expecting to get compared to normal. Do you have a 45% chance which you expected to hit 50% and only actually gave you 48%?

I believe annabell means exactly what she says, that a 5% buff (as in x1.05 to your invade attack, not +5% to your invade chance) is not being applied. A 48% invade chance is 5% lower than 50% and so is a 85% to an 89%.
Please correct me if I'm wrong/misunderstood this

Malevolentia, if your longhand math or invasion calculator says you have a 45% chance and you obviously expect it to be 45%, in game it'll be 43% 'cause a buff is broken.

ShadowsPoison is correct, I meant exactly what I said. There is a buff that's not being applied to Invasion Attack, could be the Alarri, could be the Shriek, it's not the ACF, but with rounding the difference could maybe even be contributed to the Exotic Bio-Disruptor not working, but there is no doubt in my mind that there is an error somewhere 'cause the in game success rate given does not match what is expected by doing the math longhand or by using an invasion calculator to figure what it'll be.

It's off by ~5%, so if your longhand math says 75%, in game it'll say 71%, if the invasion calculator says 40%, in game it'll say 38%, etc.
Author:  Malevolentia [ Sat May 24, 2014 11:36 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Invasion Buff NOT Working
What I meant was basically;

Were you expecting a 5% buff to invasion attack? (E.G. 1000 to 1050)
Were you expecting a 5% buff to overall invasion chance? (E.G. 45% to 50%)
Author:  Ghznl [ Sun May 25, 2014 9:05 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Invasion Buff NOT Working
Malevolentia wrote:
What I meant was basically;

Were you expecting a 5% buff to invasion attack? (E.G. 1000 to 1050)
Were you expecting a 5% buff to overall invasion chance? (E.G. 45% to 50%)

she means invasion chance. Shes discussing the ship modules that increase invasion atk by +X%. This increases the overall chance by multiplying the attack by 1.X%, which also multiplies the chance by 1.X%.

Its not additive
For a 5% buff:
1.05 represents the 5% multiplier

45% X 1.05 = 50%
85% X 1.05 = 89.25%

This adds 5% of the value of your current chance.
If you split the equation, you get:

(1 X 45%) + (0.05 X 45%) = 50%
(1 X 85%) + (0.05 X 85%) = 89.25%

These are identical to the first 2 equations.
Thats how all the % buffs work in this game, multiplicative, not additive.
Author:  Annabell [ Sun May 25, 2014 8:25 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Invasion Buff NOT Working
Malevolentia wrote:
What I meant was basically;

Were you expecting a 5% buff to invasion attack? (E.G. 1000 to 1050)
Were you expecting a 5% buff to overall invasion chance? (E.G. 45% to 50%)

The answer is that the buffs effect both.

All % attack buffs have a multiplicative increase to Invasion Attack and a multiplicative increase to Invasion Chance; however, your second formula is WRONG because it isn't multiplicative.

Anyway, I tried to keep it simple, but since that's not working, let's do some longhand math (with old numbers, but no matter) since you don't seem to get what I'm saying:

Code:
Unbuffed Attack: 71072

Dark Smuggler Chassis: 600
Biospheric Decimator: 500
Prototype Mech XV: 15
Dark Mutagen Battery:    40
Exo-Temporal Translator: 240
Psionic Amplifier:   30
Anubix, AI Assault Drone: 477
Vortov, Hired Mercenary: 596
Thraccti, Scruuge Defector: 412 (was only Level 98 at the time)
Exotic Bio-Disruptor 2.0: 350
Megacharged Bane Emitter: 75
Terrorcharged Bane Emitter: 270
Bralkir Ritual Chamber: 600
Vorean Bio-Ray: 400
Lazuli Mind Controller: 105
-----------------------------------
Additional Invasion Attack =  (600+500+15+40+240+30+477+596+412+350+75+270+600+400+105) = 4710

Crimson Obelisk: 10%
Ancient Crystal Foci: 5%
Crimson Amplifier:   15%
Crux Amplifier: 10%   

Biospheric Decimator: 9%
Biospheric Decimator: 9%
Exotic Bio-Disruptor 2.0: 6%
Vorean Biocharge: 8%
Alarri Probability Jump: 5%
Bane Shriek: 5%
-----------------------------------
LIKELY INCORRECT PREVIOUS Invasion Attack = 1.09(1.09(1.06(1.1(1.05(1.15(1.1(1.08(1.05(1.05(71072+4710)))))))))) = 166035

HOPEFULLY CORRECTLY REVISED Invasion Attack = 1.05(1.05(1.06(1.08(1.09(1.09((1.05(1.1(1.1(1.15(71072)))))+4710) = 162779

Code:
Planetary Defense: 58069 + Ion Storm Charge: -15% Defense = 0.85(58069) = 49358.65 = 49359
Planetary Attack: 3575 + Orbital Mass-Disruptor: -30% Attack = 0.7(3575) = 2502.5 = 2503
Legion Bonus: 114%
-----------------------------------
Invasion Defense = 3(2.14(49359+2503)) = 332954

EXPECTED Invasion Chance: 162779 / 332954 = 48.89% = 49%

But the IN GAME Invasion Chance shown as only 47%, so how can that be?

Well, ((1/1.05)(162779)) / 332954 = 46.56% = 47%, so it appears that one of the 5% Attack Buffs simply isn't working.
Author:  swinephil [ Sun May 25, 2014 9:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Invasion Buff NOT Working
I follow your attack maths, I'm a little less sure on the planet defence maths.

Invasion Defense = 3(2.14(49359+2503)) = 332954

I follow the 2.14(49359+2503), but I'm guessing that the x3 is that the % chance of getting a planet is 33% if your invasion attack equals the invasion defence, 66% if you attack is twice the defence, etc?????

But with the % chance capped at 90%, then would guess that the actual scale for the invasion chance is somewhat different. Following your calculations (under my assumptions), then attack of 3x the defence would give you 100% chance of getting the planet, but we know this is not the case.

I played around with some figures, but it hurt my head too much, so I would suggest that the scale of 3 you used is not correct and is slightly higher, in fact it may not even be linear?!?! :?
Author:  PLURVIOUS [ Sun May 25, 2014 9:16 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Invasion Buff NOT Working
Dan math. You all think I'm talking out of my ass, but I'm telling you - MULTIPLE items on GL don't add up right . Dan fails at math, simple as that.
Author:  Annabell [ Sun May 25, 2014 9:55 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Invasion Buff NOT Working
swinephil wrote:
I follow your attack maths, I'm a little less sure on the planet defence maths.

Invasion Defense = 3(2.14(49359+2503)) = 332954

I follow the 2.14(49359+2503), but I'm guessing that the x3 is that the % chance of getting a planet is 33% if your invasion attack equals the invasion defence, 66% if you attack is twice the defence, etc?????

But with the % chance capped at 90%, then would guess that the actual scale for the invasion chance is somewhat different. Following your calculations (under my assumptions), then attack of 3x the defence would give you 100% chance of getting the planet, but we know this is not the case.

I played around with some figures, but it hurt my head too much, so I would suggest that the scale of 3 you used is not correct and is slightly higher, in fact it may not even be linear?!?! :?

All I can say is that without question it WAS linear, the Invasion Chance formula was cracked by Namba1 way back on July 4th, 2011.

It was absolutely accurate until recently, that is to say, it worked without fail for two years and did not require any sort of modifier to account for the 90% cap. If your chance was 96% via the formula, it simply was displayed as 90% in game, but the formula didn't deviate in game from what longhand math expected below 90%.

Based upon what it's off by now, it makes sense that what's not working is either the Alarri or Shriek, which are both relatively new in terms of how long it's been accurately described as:

    Invasion Chance = Invasion Attack / (3 * (Planet Defense + Planet Attack))

I suppose if the community is no longer at a point where we work together to help validate things by gathering examples, then there was no point in posting about it here.

I'll just do some "unlikely to succeed" invasions myself, without Alarri, without Shriek, and without both, to gather further evidence, but I am fairly confident that it will show Namba1's previously described formula remains correct when only buffs that are certainly working are used.
Author:  DarkMar [ Sun May 25, 2014 10:14 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Invasion Buff NOT Working
was theire any struktures on planet like
Bralkir Altar (size 1, Mining: 1, Research: 1, Artifact: 1, Invasion Defense: 2500 )

that had Invasion Defense ?


as far as I know the full formular is

Invasion Chance = Invasion Attack / (3 * (Planet Defense + Planet Attack + Invasion Defense ))

if theire was, it might explain why your chance was lower then your EXPECTED Invasion Chance
Author:  swinephil [ Sun May 25, 2014 10:33 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Invasion Buff NOT Working
Thanks Annabell, I didn't know about that previous post, way before my time!!

I'll collect some data on my next few invades and post it here for you and hopefully it will help.
Author:  Annabell [ Sun May 25, 2014 11:53 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Invasion Buff NOT Working
DarkMar wrote:
was theire any struktures on planet like
Bralkir Altar (size 1, Mining: 1, Research: 1, Artifact: 1, Invasion Defense: 2500 )

that had Invasion Defense ?


as far as I know the full formular is

Invasion Chance = Invasion Attack / (3 * (Planet Defense + Planet Attack + Invasion Defense ))

if theire was, it might explain why your chance was lower then your EXPECTED Invasion Chance

You are correct, and the invasion calculator spreadsheet even has a place to account for such data; however, there were no Invasion Defense structures on any of the several test planets I noted before posting here. (Believe me, I checked and rechecked for hours each time trying to figure out what I may have overlooked, even looking three times to ensure my ship did get the proper Alarri bonus, and that I did activate all the other buffs, including Shriek, that I had intended.)

But, even if there had been some unnoticed, (though I'm certain there weren't), it would not account for a uniform 5% deviation between the expected and the actual in game display that wasn't present during the first two years I played the game, as the value of the invasion defense structures would vary from planet to planet as well, right?

When I have some time, I'll narrow down which buff likely is the issue by testing with and without Alarri while using no Shriek and vice versa, plus take screenshots too.
Author:  Malevolentia [ Mon May 26, 2014 1:07 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Invasion Buff NOT Working
Annabell wrote:
Malevolentia wrote:
What I meant was basically;

Were you expecting a 5% buff to invasion attack? (E.G. 1000 to 1050)
Were you expecting a 5% buff to overall invasion chance? (E.G. 45% to 50%)

The answer is that the buffs effect both.

All % attack buffs have a multiplicative increase to Invasion Attack and a multiplicative increase to Invasion Chance; however, your second formula is WRONG because it isn't multiplicative.

Anyway, I tried to keep it simple, but since that's not working, let's do some longhand math (with old numbers, but no matter) since you don't seem to get what I'm saying:

Code:
Unbuffed Attack: 71072

Dark Smuggler Chassis: 600
Biospheric Decimator: 500
Prototype Mech XV: 15
Dark Mutagen Battery:    40
Exo-Temporal Translator: 240
Psionic Amplifier:   30
Anubix, AI Assault Drone: 477
Vortov, Hired Mercenary: 596
Thraccti, Scruuge Defector: 412 (was only Level 98 at the time)
Exotic Bio-Disruptor 2.0: 350
Megacharged Bane Emitter: 75
Terrorcharged Bane Emitter: 270
Bralkir Ritual Chamber: 600
Vorean Bio-Ray: 400
Lazuli Mind Controller: 105
-----------------------------------
Additional Invasion Attack =  (600+500+15+40+240+30+477+596+412+350+75+270+600+400+105) = 4710

Biospheric Decimator: 9%
Biospheric Decimator: 9%
Exotic Bio-Disruptor 2.0: 6%
Crimson Obelisk: 10%
Ancient Crystal Foci: 5%
Crimson Amplifier:   15%
Crux Amplifier: 10%   
Vorean Biocharge: 8%
Alarri Probability Jump: 5%
Bane Shriek: 5%
-----------------------------------
Invasion Attack = 1.09(1.09(1.06(1.1(1.05(1.15(1.1(1.08(1.05(1.05(71072+4710)))))))))) = 166035

Code:
Planetary Defense: 58069 + Ion Storm Charge: -15% Defense = 0.85(58069) = 49358.65 = 49359
Planetary Attack: 3575 + Orbital Mass-Disruptor: -30% Attack = 0.7(3575) = 2502.5 = 2503
Legion Bonus: 114%
-----------------------------------
Invasion Defense = 3(2.14(49359+2503)) = 332954

EXPECTED Invasion Chance: 166035 / 332954 = 49.87% = 50%

But the IN GAME Invasion Chance shown as only 47%, so how can that be?

Well, (0.95(166035)) / 332954 = 47.37% = 47%, so it appears that one of the 5% Attack Buffs simply isn't working.


I was just asking what you were expecting to happen, I wasn't saying one was right or wrong. I didn't get what you were saying because you weren't answering my question.
Author:  Ghznl [ Mon May 26, 2014 3:15 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Invasion Buff NOT Working
Maloventia, you do have to realize that invasion chance and attack are almost the same thing, just one is dependent on the planetary defense capacity by having that in the denominator.

If you increase the attack by 5%, the numerator in the equation increases 5%, making the overall chance also increase by 5%.

Lets simplify the invasion chance formula. Your invasion atk is 100. The planets defense capacity is 1.666666.

The equation becomes:

Invasion chance = (atk/(3*defense capacity))

= (100/(3*defense capacity))

= 100/(3*1.66666)

= 100/5

= 20

Now if we change invasion atk to 105, which represents the 5% atk error and you should see what we mean.

105/5 = 21

105 is a 5% increase over 100, notice how 21 is also a 5% increase over 20.

I'm surprised this hasn't gotten a response yet, its a pretty serious error from what I see. Invading planets is supposed to be a fundamental part of the game, and when that isnt working properly, its a serious issue.
Author:  Malevolentia [ Mon May 26, 2014 4:51 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Invasion Buff NOT Working
Ghznl wrote:
Maloventia, you do have to realize that invasion chance and attack are almost the same thing, just one is dependent on the planetary defense capacity by having that in the denominator.

If you increase the attack by 5%, the numerator in the equation increases 5%, making the overall chance also increase by 5%.

Lets simplify the invasion chance formula. Your invasion atk is 100. The planets defense capacity is 1.666666.

The equation becomes:

Invasion chance = (atk/(3*defense capacity))

= (100/(3*defense capacity))

= 100/(3*1.66666)

= 100/5

= 20

Now if we change invasion atk to 105, which represents the 5% atk error and you should see what we mean.

105/5 = 21

105 is a 5% increase over 100, notice how 21 is also a 5% increase over 20.

I'm surprised this hasn't gotten a response yet, its a pretty serious error from what I see. Invading planets is supposed to be a fundamental part of the game, and when that isnt working properly, its a serious issue.


I didn't realise this and I figured they would be different.
Author:  DarkMar [ Mon May 26, 2014 9:50 pm ]
Post subject:  Re: Invasion Buff NOT Working
Annabell wrote:
You are correct, and the invasion calculator spreadsheet even has a place to account for such data; however, there were no Invasion Defense structures on any of the several test planets I noted before posting here. (Believe me, I checked and rechecked for hours each time trying to figure out what I may have overlooked, even looking three times to ensure my ship did get the proper Alarri bonus, and that I did activate all the other buffs, including Shriek, that I had intended.)

But, even if there had been some unnoticed, (though I'm certain there weren't), it would not account for a uniform 5% deviation between the expected and the actual in game display that wasn't present during the first two years I played the game, as the value of the invasion defense structures would vary from planet to planet as well, right?

When I have some time, I'll narrow down which buff likely is the issue by testing with and without Alarri while using no Shriek and vice versa, plus take screenshots too.


I agrey, if it's a fixed 5% Deviation it does sound like theire is a boost "missing" somewere
just wanted to rule out invasion defence so we know for sure that it isn't a factor in this

Next thing that could be an isue.... are you 100% your invasion attack is 166.035

as I remember it, wiki isnt realy specifik about what boosts Work on what
http://galaxylegion.com/wiki/index.php/ ... ion_Chance

Quote:
Planet Invasion Chance
With thanks to Darth Flagitious
InvAtt = Your Invasion Attack (Your "Normal" Attack + "normal" buffs (i.e. crux/crimson/crystal etc.)+ Invasion-specific attack (from modules) + Invasion buffs (Stryll Pathogen, Mutagenic Cartridges etc.))*Invasion %Bonus(Decimators, Kulgox)


I have seen some players claim it's,
Your Invasion Attack = ((normal attack * attack %boosts) + Invasion-specific attack) * Invasion %Bonus

and others claim it's
Your Invasion Attack = (normal attack + Invasion-specific attack) * attack %boosts * Invasion %Bonus


personaly, I belive the formular you are using is the corect one
but as you only get your % when you fail an invasion, I have never realy gotten around to check up on witch one is actualy the corect one
Author:  Ranqul [ Tue May 27, 2014 4:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Invasion Buff NOT Working
Annabell wrote:
Well, (0.95(166035)) / 332954 = 47.37% = 47%, so it appears that one of the 5% Attack Buffs simply isn't working.[/color]


I really hope you're only using the 0.95 multiplier as an approximation.

Realistically you should be using:

(1/1.05)*(166035)) / 332954 = 47.49%
Author:  Ghznl [ Tue May 27, 2014 4:43 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Invasion Buff NOT Working
DarkMar wrote:
Quote:
Planet Invasion Chance
With thanks to Darth Flagitious
InvAtt = Your Invasion Attack (Your "Normal" Attack + "normal" buffs (i.e. crux/crimson/crystal etc.)+ Invasion-specific attack (from modules) + Invasion buffs (Stryll Pathogen, Mutagenic Cartridges etc.))*Invasion %Bonus(Decimators, Kulgox)


I have seen some players claim it's,
Your Invasion Attack = ((normal attack * attack %boosts) + Invasion-specific attack) * Invasion %Bonus

and others claim it's
Your Invasion Attack = (normal attack + Invasion-specific attack) * attack %boosts * Invasion %Bonus


personaly, I belive the formular you are using is the corect one
but as you only get your % when you fail an invasion, I have never realy gotten around to check up on witch one is actualy the corect one

Its the first equation, I dont have the data to prove it, but when my attack was much lower (Only about 1000 attack or so) and I had decimators, the 200 invasion attack was enough to make a 1-2% difference depending on where it was in the equation. When I used the top equation, it matched the in-game cited % when I failed an invasion, the second equation was typically 1-2% too high back then
Author:  itsSoulPLayAgain [ Tue May 27, 2014 5:10 am ]
Post subject:  Re: Invasion Buff NOT Working
I dont under stand this. Why you know Buff up and ram it hard till its yours ?
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