This is just a conglomeration of ideas and thoughts I've had since I made the jump from a PvP-orientation to hacking.

i. The system is fundamentally broken.
You can not be highly competitive in both playstyles (until the end of the game when all the modules are up anyway?)
Due to the stats needed to be effective, and more importantly the deck space needed. Five scanners and four cloak modules easily take up more, or perhaps just as much as a full load of weapons.
Yet when you attack in PvP, the only risk you have now is hitting a Krionus trap. 30 minutes, you're still 10% effective, and can debuff the target sufficiently to score a badge. Additionally, attacking a target can result in hundreds of millions (at my rank) of repair costs so is actually painful to the targeted player.
Meanwhile, a hacker risks hitting a firewall trap which disables them 100% for a whole two hours with no way around other than a null fuse, which PvP shares. Furthermore, hacks can only be done once every fifteen minutes successfully, whereas PvP can continue indefinitely.

ii. The rewards system is unequal
Even if you don't care about the "prestige" behind being Insane - I know I enjoy it - the badge rewards are ridiculous. For a PvP'er, you become significantly stronger, up to 600 attack, which effects both PvP, PvNPC, and Invasion chance.
Alternatively, a hacker receives an artifact which is useless after a certain level unless used en masse (And even then, his statistics are probably too poor to use in mass), a so-so planet artifact, or after a ridiculous amount of time, can get a whole +100 to cloak and scan, which means very little to hacking or any other area.

iii. Being treated as equals?
The system doesn't work with the rules.
Whereas to be competitive it's an either-or situation, PvP, despite being more financially damaging, more rewarding, far less downtime (I can regularly get ~40 badges a day without refilles) while Hacking must be retarded because like raiding, abuse can cripple an opposing player.
I don't know how to argue the impact of losing several hundred million credits versus a few thousand research points, should things be changed, but I digress:



So we've established that "Hacking" as a lifestyle in this game is fundamentally flawed, and widely considered an inferior playstyle.

Consequently, I've come up with a few ideas. These are not meant to be taken as a group, but be considered individually*


i. Change the firewall trap.
a. Make the firewall act as a Halycon. After all, a firewall isn't a counter-virus, it's a wall that prevents intrusion. If you hit a player, make him immune to your hacks for the next hour or two. No counter-hack possible, since no "hack" took place.
b. Make the firewall act as a one-time bonus versus hacking. When triggered, opponent's scan raises, say, (rank*2+10%) This way hitting a firewall doesn't destroy the hacking player, does act as a defense, and benefits balanced individuals who already have scanners in place.

ii. Change the system
a. Hacking is FUBAR because, like raiding, it involves theft of resources. Consequently you get that ridiculous timer. Instead of "stealing" research, why not "copy" a % of the research. After all, most hackers don't intrude into systems to destroy the data, but to steal it. This is less aggressive to other players, makes hacking more strategic (look for players with more research-per-hour, or who look afk), and means that a fifteen minute timer is no longer necessary.
b. Hacking should confer some other bonus than small increments of research points since, once again, it is a "lifestyle" to play competitively. This can be an (undetermined) system where you can debuff boss NPC's, lower or thwart base defenses and artifacts, and etc.
c. This one is pretty far out there and Dan would probably hate the balance: Make low-level NPC's "hackable". Whereas PvNPC guys have a health bar to get down, hackers would have an alternative "System Stability" bar they could lower. Hackers could still be hit per "hack" attempt as it is their method of "damage". NPC's could be made to be more vulnerable to one play style or another. Or, scarier yet for Dan, the same "System Stability" bar could be introduced to players to make PvP, PvNPC, and base combat more dynamic and strategic.

iii. Change the rewards
a. Seriously, the rewards for hacking are a disgrace. Assuming hacking does not become easier, I can think of a few suggestions:
i. "Cascade Failure" artifact: When attacking, a player with this debuff will have 5-10 modules at a time be discounted for the sake of damage calculations. They are not removed, but simply ignored in damage calculations.
ii. Counter-Intelligence Nexus: Same as before, but add this beauty: Every nexus will improve player's scanning by 1% for planet scanning calculations. One per planet. Seriously, getting a 10% boost would be 400 blue badges. That's 100 hours straight, assuming no two hour traps.
iii. Artifical Intelligence Nodule: Size 20 Limit: 4 Scan / Cloak +100. Reduces chance of hitting Firewall trap by 10% per nodule.



Anyway, throw up thoughts or suggestions.
I care more about getting hacking fixed and viable than you guys loving my ideas, so any input is welcome.

+1

To be honest, I think both raiding and hacking need an overhaul, but I think hacking needs it the most by far leaps and bounds.

I agree that research points shouldn't be "stolen", but rather "copied". Like you pointed out, hackers don't necessarily destroy data, they just retrieve it. Most of the time, the data is still where it was in the first place, but the hacker has a 'copy' as well. So, this would make more sense realistically.

I think a good module would be for some amount of blue badges, an item that increases the % success of hacking and/or the % of research 'copied'. These would of course need to take time (although not be unobtainable), but would be a very nice bonus and promote that sort of 'lifestyle'. I have a friend that plays. He is pretty savvy with computers in real life (and a physicist) and so the idea of hacking appealed to him, but on multiple occasions he has complained about the firewall traps and the wait and the fact that he's not gaining anything. He can't rank off of it, he doesn't get much research out of it, he doesn't get any really good buildings or modules. Right now, he says he's trying to get on the leader board and other than that I'm not really sure what his game plan is/what he plans to do.

I personally don't hack, I'm more of a PvE player, so I also know that the two play styles do not go perfectly hand-in-hand. By the time you reach the rank where you can equip everything, trying to do both is not nearly as easy.


I think hacking should reward experience. Perhaps hackers may or may not want experience, but I would say if you 'copy' the amount of research based on another person's production, it would benefit the hacker to rank up. I also think there should be better ship modules and the trap should be like Ferros was saying.

Won't really change my game, but it sounds FAIR to me personally. Hackers (since I know a few people in game who do it as a play style) should have the same growth potential and rewards that the rest do!

+1 to the firewall as a halcyon. i think the original hack should still go through and a 4-6 hour timer would be best. also, +1 to better badge rewards. the counter intelligence nexus is a joke. its barely better than 2 spy uplink chasses. an upgrade to the decryption quad frame would be nice, and definitely a better planet building. i also think another reward other than research should be added, or at least a boost to the research received. what i get from hacking isnt worth it, and i quit a while back. boosting rewards i think is more important than changing hacking

I like to hack, but seriously, the rewards are crap, I am getting tired of hitting Firewalls and my AP production sucks so I NEVER have any nulls.

SO.....+1

I like all of the ideas Ferros has brought up.

Really you must not hack that much if your going to leave out crit hacks , I have only done 336 hacks , and I hacked 20+ planets and 5 where Mega Rich or better. Do you really think taking someones good planets is not a good reward?

You get the hack before the trap gos off , if you pvp and hit an H-trap your out of luck and whatever energy you used.

Hacking comes with 1 of the best pvp badge items , Tactical Inner-Bypass , I have been taken down by some joke of a ship 1/2 my level with 1/4 my states because of these.

So in players with a database of hundreds of planets, you've only hacked 20 or so, but gotten five mega rich or better? Than you are an extreme statistical anomaly, and that argument shouldn't even be brought up in the first place. To say nothing of you risking extreme retaliation for "the chance" you got something good, and largely unable to defend yourself since most of your deckspace is dedicated to cloak and scan modules.




A trap that lasts for two hours and leaves you unable to do anything vs. a 30 minute trap that's only 90% and you can debuff an enemy to your hearts content to make it easier. I've killed plenty of people while under a Krionus trap while I hit Insane reputation.




Or you can just stack any regular debuff.
A bit ridiculous that "the best" PvP badge item is a necessity for hackers because we have no PvP ability whatsoever.

overall, yes, but some of the details no.

Regarding "copy data" vs "destroy data"
that technically depend on mission objective. In case of warfare, it's very normal, under the condition "stealth" is no longer required to destroy the enemy data center via whatever means necessary.
So with that said, both would make sense
The problem is, I can imagine "copy data" being abused (2 player put up high cloak but low scan, save up a bunch of rp each and just hack at each other)
So I'm against copy data.

One thing to note about hack is that it does take a lot less energy than disable. In fact, with the cd it have, if you have good relays on, you will NEVER run out of energy by hack alone.
So here is an idea that merge the energy case with the cd case:
instead of a long cd, after each successful hack, +10 energy cost to hacking. The cost will drop by 1 per min until it reaches 5 again. We can have a ceiling of 50-100 energy or so for this. So if you spread it out and do it slowly like u do now, u can spend a few energy to do. But if you really want to give it a short burst, all it cost u is more energy.

Ofc, another alternative to "cooldown" would be make the "cooldown" on the hacked target instead. The cd exist so you don't just empty the target's research, so as long as the target is protected from multi hack(via a 10-15 min hack immunity) this goal is achieved. Ofc, this would cause change in the world of pack hack on someone you and ur pal really hate or something, but it's considerable

Regarding firewall:
firewall CAN have counter measures, military ones usually do. And another duty of firewall is detection of attack, in which case the IT guys on board(which they should) will counter hack. So it's NOT unimaginable that firewall causes "damage" of sorts to the hacker. However, I do agree that complete overload the system is a bit over the top. So here is my alternative:
When firewall is triggered, the hacker have its cloak lowered by a certain amount. This amount depends on the hacking ability of the two sides. If the hacker have far superior hacking power, than it's small amount, otherwise, a big amount.(take it as if the hacked ship is "attacking" and hacker "defending", with hack stat as atk/def respectively. Then the "hp" is the cloak)
Ofc, being a "firewall" and hereby nerfed, here is another modification that would make sense: it would be able to trigger 5 times before going poof. Seriously, firewall don't just go poof when it's hit once~

just my two cents.... I tried to make this reply once before but it appears to have failed? oh well~ here it goes again

To say my luck with hacking shouldn't even be brought up in the first place is just like putting your fingers in your ears and going "LALALA I CAN'T HEAR YOU" and I was never in any danger , at low levels I just dropped my scanners and put up hull and defense when I was done most stopped trying to attack me over hack because it coated 100-200 energy to do it , at higher levels most don't even care about a 1 hack off the BT and if you get a bad planet in the hack just tell them the name and most wont freak on you over it.



If your still attacking with -90% and using loads of debuff for 5 energy each to make up for it you will burn far to much energy for just 1 kill and if your unlucky and there online they can stop you from getting the kill at all.




Again debuff cost 5 energy for each -10 becoming less effective with each use(takes 7 to drop a state to half) , or for one 5 energy hack you can drop all there attack and defense mods.

And I forgot I have used a Dark Pyramid after hitting a firewall and just flared the person till I could hack them.
So you can still use your mass debuff to keep hacking.

Do you understand statistics? Outliers are ignored. May as well tell me the lottery is a good use of money because hey, you won a million dollars. But, I suppose an immature retort works. And you're not? That's an easy way to work up repair bills. I can tell you when I'm in my wargear, I disable and raid anyone who attacks me. It's not as though hull and defense are going to stop someone with good weapons, meanwhile you're frying your modules. And yeah, "Trust me, it wasn't good" works, I'm sure.



Maybe, but the chance of them being online is pretty slim. Likewise, at rank 270 I was running ~5800 unbuffed attack. 580 attack is still plenty to kill someone. Besides, red badge is a red badge. Who cares. Meanwhile, you get hit with a trap, you get NO BADGES for two hours no matter what.




No, you can't. Unless people only have a grand total of five modules? Last time I had a bypass it pretty much stripped my mission rewards stuff .. I have ~40 modules between attack and defense, I'm not afraid of an item that costs you BADGES to use, and a minimum of over an hour to earn.



So you talk about "wasting energy" when a PvP'er does it .. but the much more painful (And generally impossible at high rank) strategy of debuffing someone else's cloak it's fair?
Lawl.

Edit: Either you're lying or misremembering. Buffing your own cloak when you have a -99.9% debuff means.. you can't buff it enough to hack someone again.

Disregarding your luck, I have hacked about 229 times and have ONLY got a Crit. Hack ONCE and it was a very bad planet.

Regarding your luck, yes those are nice rewards to hacking, but as mentioned by someone else, you WHERE very lucky and 99.99% of the time players will not receive such great rewards.

Yes I do understand statistics I had good luck but the rewards can still be much better then pvp, and all your doing is ignoring anyone's strategy that doesn't fit your own it works and I'm not the only one that used that play style.



Like I said before , even when you hit the hack trap you still get the badge and you can go on hacking with a Dark Pyramid and flares but its going to cost you more energy just like going on pvping with a Krionus Virus Trap would.



Yes you can , unless they made an unannounced update for 1 hack you can use as many as you want. I can make 5 blues in 3 min.



I never said it was a good plan , It was a war thing and before nulls, I just said you could Just like going on attacking with a KVT on.
Unless it was changed (only did it 1 time and a long time ago) it still gives you 50 cloak IF you put it on after the trap.

To debuff defense by 90% to make up for KVT takes 21-22 EMP Sphere's , to drop 6K(most run less) scan to under 50 it only takes 7 Quantum Flare even 16K(Last known scan max) only takes 9 Quantum Flares to get it under 50.

Yes I was lucky , but I mostly just hack higher levels so that helped my luck. (hacking players higher level then you gives you better odds of crit hack , hacking player lower level then you lowers odds of crit hack)

can you explain how I'm "ignoring anyone's strategy"? That's a pretty big blanket statement that you've yet to describe.



Like I said before, you're wrong about dark pyramids and flares. And once again, why would anyone want to keep doing that? I'd just finish off the guy who Krion'd me since I'm typically 3/4 done anyway. Even if you're impossible explanation did work, I'd be blowing through an enormous number of finite traps to do one person.



Unless you're counting on time manipulators, no you're not.



I'm already described how you can't actually do that, something you completely ignored. And 50 cloak isn't going to mean anything unless they already had ridiculously low stats. Scan only counts on a successful try, you need comparative cloak to even hack in the first place.


Also, you admit that you're ridiculously lucky (And a question the truth of it) 5 megas in 20 critical hacks, so don't even bother bringing that to the table. If you're a .01% outlier, than for all intents and purposes we can ignore your personal fortune when addressing game mechanics at large.

I'm done here you really know nothing about hacking Ferros.

As a guy whose studied logic and used to debate in college, I should tell you that when you kept failing to address any of my arguments, that meant you forfeit them.

I don't arbitrarily lose because you say so.

But hey, I have others here agreeing with me, so, you go run off and have fun.

1. i know i shouldnt be posting anymore but i hate it when someone will not get his facts straight
2. wolfprince is right about dark pyramid because the trap's effect has already been placed on your CURRENT cloak not the cloak AFTER a new dark pyramid now, im not saying that you can just sell all your cloak then buy it back and your problem is fixed im saying that you can put on a dark pyramid AFTER the firewall trap has taken effect and the dark pyramid's affect WILL work because I have done this 20 times already (heck those 20 dps gave me like 30-40 of my 95 total hacks of my old profile(before resetting and then after resetting deleting my profile)and i was a good hacker too)
so dont tell me that this doesnt work and personally best poeple to hack are the guys with good combat rep their scan usually isnt very well tnx to the fact that they use it all on weopons and defense first

3. +1 your ideas i like (yes even though i dont play anymore)


alright i have rid myself of this im going back to the shadows

Klm, the problem is once you reach my rank, most people have several hundred cloak by default. Consequently, your "50" cloak means you won't be able to hack them anyway.

i once made a post about some ideas to balance hacking pvp but while my ideas was still rough and unpolished yours are rather refined so i say a big +1 hacking in this game is next to pointless and just is a good way to get hurt the rewards arnt even worth it and the bypass is a joke once you get past rank 60 you just cant take enough systems off line for them to be worth useing