2+2=4

wtf? WHY did you do that!?!?!

Because it was a glitch and people get banned for knowingly exploiting glitches.

oh, in that case everyone who has installed the aegis capacitor aside from tree should be permanently banned for exploiting a glitch, right?

-1 "KNOWINGLY"

+1 to the catch
An honest player in GL after all.

I wouldn't call it a glitch

Classic case of Dan pressing 4 instead of 3

If you purposely plan to Run 0 shield modules, than 60 deck to the Aegis is worth it at 2913, IMO. The Shield is a nice have when you are barraging NPCs, or Bases, or just PvP, things where Repairs count.

Also, if you are going Small Ship design to reduce Damage cap, then you must not be a fast-ranker, since it's ((RANK+20)/2) OR (DECK/2) Whichever is GREATER.

My guess is you don;'t do any Defense research etc, and just do Buildings, Energy and Weapons, (possibly not even Energy), that will only get you so far, you need ranks to fit planets, you need scan to find planets, but I suppose you aren't going for the "Fastest" Possible Build, As you level up you'll need to get more decks for more defense because after a while damage cap or not there is a limit to how much hull and shield you can have.

What is really confusing is that if you are trying to keep decks at Rank+20, you probably want shield, since shield can be set-up in such a way that it will recharge faster than an enemy can damage you if you have a low enough damage cap..

wheres your evidence that your can have shield recharge faster then someone can damage you??? that would be game breaking I would think.. sounds like INFINITE shields to me...

and wheres your evidence on a limit of how much hull/shield you can have based on your rank???? if you stagnate your level and just do arti pulls, you can use those artis until your hearts content..
I'm going to be doing exactly that at about 300, and just wait for my ship to improve itself with my sweet arti income..

There is no Limit to how much hull and shield you can have per rank, never said their was.

It's not EASY to have more shield than you can have damage done to you, however the limit for damage per attack is 1/2 (Your RANK +20) OR 1/2 your DECK whichever is higher.

So some players try not to have more decks than 20 past their rank level.

Since there are ways of increasing your shields and ship defenses without increasing your deck, you could reach the point where you have more shield than another player can remove before it recharges.

So, for instance, if you are rank 60, you can have 80 deck, and the max damage that can be done to you per attack is 40.

(A player can only do max damage to you most of the time so long as their attack is about 11x your defenses.)

Exactly what the best combination of modules to put in that 80 decks to make yourself the hardest possible target and achieve infinite recharge is open for debate, but lets just make some assumptions:

We know that players can only attack another player who is + or - 40% of the attacking player's rank (otherwise they will not appear on your BT.

Because of this we know you can ONLY be attacked by players between Rank 43 and Rank 100, which mostly will not be very strong players, so they are unlikely to have very high attack, as Attack can only be raised by modules which require decks or through using Rank Points (which do not require decks).

I DO NOT remember (as it has been ages since I started) what the default values are for ships in this game for shield, attack, energy, and defense, all of which would be important to know to make the best kit out.

Lets say most players in this rank rank have 1000 ATK Power, if you get your defense to about 500 using helmsmen (250 helmsmen assuming that defense starts as 0) then they will be doing about 10 to 20 damage per hit or so (lets call it 15 damage per hit)

If you can get your shield recharge down to 1 minute (the smallest time frame for recharge is 43 seconds) then you need to tank about (90x15 = 1350) shield per minute (Assuming they can click about once per second, people can click faster than this, or slower than this, but the game starts to limit you when you click very fast due to having to refresh so I would say 0.75 seconds is a reasonable approximation of some fast clicking by a user.)

Since your shields recharge 2% each time they recharge, it means you need to have 67,500 shield to be completely free from the chance of them getting through your shield.

However there is a limit to how much energy a player has, and between Ranks 29 and 100, I don't think it's likely to be more than 1000. So the max damage they can do is 250x15 = 3750, if your shields did not recharge you could have about 3900 shields (to be safe) and use all their energy and not be disabled.

However, and since they only do 90 hits per minute, and your shield recharges 2% per minute you will get two to three re-charges in the time it takes them to do 3750(ish) dmg.

Again assuming that you buffer to about an effective 3900 shield, you can factor in the recharges, and you ONLY need between 3369 and 3538 shield to use up all their energy.

However, the XP you get from attacking a player is not much, therefore the real goal of a player such as this would be simply to discourage the other player from attacking so that they give up because they were wasting their time and energy when there are far easier targets.

So, how much is a player willing to invest to kill you, if they attack you continuously for 1 whole minute, 90 clicks, and still have not gotten past your shield, and are only doing 15 dmg per hit they will probably stop.

Therefore you really only have to account for say 90 to 120 attack (lets call it 105) as they have wasted 525 energy attacking you at that point, so 105x15 = 1575, so you need about 1700 shield to have them never get through your shields in 105 attacks, and factoring in 1 recharge, you only need 1667 shield to effectively stop them

(Of Course if you are stealing planets from players, they may be more interested in revenge than saving their energy or they may share you with their legion, which can gang up on yo or have a high ranking player who does your max damage try to take you out instead.

So, yes it's theoretically possible to truly tank all of the damage, however it is HIGHLY unlikely to be achieved. That said it is very likely that a player who configures his ship just right and ranks slowly can make it a complete pain for someone to attack them using shields, to the point where so long as they are not attacked often they will rarely have a player who will be able to stmoch disabling them for 1667 shield or less.

-Q

Correct.



i don't understand your argument.

Without considering the extra 5%, Aegis has a shield/deck ratio of 15. That alone makes it a better shield mod to put on your ship if you value deck space. But wait, it gets better. The ratio just keeps on increasing as you gain shield through other means. At 3700 shield, adding Aegis gives you 500 shield, or a ratio of 25.

Bottom line : if you're only worried about shield gained, wait until 3700 shield to make an Aegis. If you're worried about deck space, Aegis gives you more shield/deck than Heavy Obviation even if you have 0 shield.

Seems to me you want to REPLACE a Heavy Obviation with an Aegis, ie make Aegis so good that 1 of them gives equal shielding to a Heavy Obviation. Assuming you have no installed Aegis, that will happen at 5439 shield. Explanation :

Heavy Obviation provides 559 shield. Removing it puts you at 4880. Putting an Aegis on jacks it back up to 5439 ((4880+ 300)*1.05).

Doing that makes you not lose any shield, but you gain 32 decks...

Personally, i didnt bother with most of that. I figured sooner or later (sooner most likely), I'd get enough shields to make Aegis worthwhile no matter what. I thought I'd start right away.

Callandros

Take a look at my post going into this too please, I think it may help you understand his argument in detail, but here it is in brief:

Because x-charge cells give 5 shield each, then the aegis must provide 500 shield to be of equal value to just adding more xCharge cells. At which point their Shield/Deck ratio = "0"

The Magic number is 2913, because if you add 300 xCharge cells at that point, they total up 1500 additional Shield, however saving up those 300 xCharge Cells and putting on 3 Aegis give you 1501 additional Shield..

I agree with you that the obviator thing is only a matter of Tree's personal preference, because you may reach your goal of 2913 shield by having 5x heavy obviator, or even with only lesser shield technology in place, and a smaller number of XCharge Cells, in which case if you have the 60 space the Aegis are still better.

My opinion is 2913 = Aegis are good to go, since most people are not playing the game Tree is trying to play of ignoring adding defensive and other modules to his ship, so that he can keep his deck low to reduce the maximum damage he can take.

Personally I think to do so requires a high level of research and good NPC modules, I think in the end this strategy will stunt his advancement to high levels in the game, but it's his choice to do it.

I was most concerned that initially his post was misleading about the Aegis, and that while he is sort-of on the ball when it comes to his own strategy, the vast majority of players are not following that strategy and would be benefited by getting Aegis.

-Q

I read argument before posting. Your numbers are right, but so is the original 3700 number. Why? Because 3700 is based on the decision to buy your *first* aegis, not all 3. The decision to start saving at 3700 is self evident, because at that value, your very *first* aegis will be worth more shield than the 100 xcharge cells needed to make it.

If you start saving at 2913, your *first* aegis will *not* be worth the 100 xcharge cells needed to make it; you need to buy all 3 in succession so that its worth more.



Is there a shield mod with better shield/deck ratio? I've not found any after looking for a few minutes. Therefore, if you want to add a shield mod, even if just one, it should be your first choice. In my opinion anyways. Plus, it doesn't need any research investment, and like another said, the upkeep is pretty low.



Ya i agree with that. Actually you should start saving shield amps prior to that. At 2913 you should already have 300 of them. Assuming your not trading for them of course.

Callandros

2913, is on the assumption that getting the 3 aegis is a better over-all strategy for your next 300 xCharge cells, in that yes you get slightly less shield on the first two than you would with strait xCharge, but by the 3rd you end up with additional shield than if you had applied those 300 xCharge cells directly to your ship, so the minor reduction prior is off-set by getting the multiplier 400 xCharge cells sooner.



What I mean to say is that I agree with tree that until three units together give a bonus shield compared with exchagre cells they have 0 shield/hull ration verses just installing Xcharge cells. If you could get the Aegis without having to sacrifice 300 xCharge cells then their shield/deck ratio would be awesome, and you would be stupid not to equip them if you have them.

In fact I literally pointed this out to Tree, saying if you didn't know what you were doing, and got any number of aegis shields before you reached 2913 shield, you would be a fool not to equip them, because they have an amazing shield to deck ratio when you don;t take into account that the xCharge cells themselves give 500 shield for each aegis.

so what your saying in the second part is both true, and false at the same time. It's simply a matter of if you don't have them yet verses if you already have them.

#3

Glad we agree on item 3 where its not an xCharge-only world as tree was thinking about.

-Q

hmmm... it all depends on your profession... if you are an accountant 2+2 can be any number you can imagine

Well - and that was the last point of my first post - as long as you accept temporary penalties, why not get them even earlier? After all, eventually, you'll get to a point where they will pay out. Not to mention that during the time you save up, you're getting research, decks, etc. so you may end up over 2913 anyways by the time you have your 300 cells!



Xcharge cells have infinite shield/deck ratio. Nothing can beat that. Ever. This is why I don't get the 7000 or 8000 shield argument. At that number, xcharge cells are still better shield/deck ratio, and the better choice for an as low as possible deck space strat. No reason, ever, to save them up for an Aegis. BUT. If someone wants to put one, just one, shield module, then Aegis is the way to go, whether you have 0 or 8000 shield.

If you're worried about best shield/xcharge cell, then whatever strat you use, 2913 or 3700 shield are the numbers to remember.

Callandros

because eventually the aegis always yield more benefit than the xCharges themselves. What the 7000/8000 is is the point at which the BONUS above adding the XCharges themselves reaches the same shield/deck ratio of Heavy obliteration shields, which the OP has chosen as his "break Even" point.

Ah. Now I see. It's an odd way of looking at it, but I see it. If you're willing to have lower max shields from 2900 to 8000 just to make sure you dont use deck space, why would you not want to continue past that...

Callandros

true. Or if you are only willing to use a limited amount of space to shield yourself then I say once you have 20 space devoted you should use the Aegis, as you pointed out it's the most bang for your buck for that 20 deck space, and you will only be adding 1 deck per rank anyway, so it would be 31 more ranks to fit a single obliterator.

-Q

I feel the need to necro this....

I've seen a few ship comparisons where people have a tiny amount of shield yet went ahead and bought a shield aegis