I realize Dan is here to make money and that is why he changed the majority of the good artifacts so that they could not be found in normal artifact draws. He puts a lot of time and energy into the game and if you are going to get the most from it, you have to pay up. Setting it up so we have to buy items or buy energy to fight and earn better items is the way most Facebook games go at some point. I say that because I want to be clear I am not complaining.

I have brought this up before but the game continues to shift away from resources being worthwhile and more towards paying for what you need (planet fluxes being a perfect example). There are no truly valuable artifacts you can find through artifact resources. The best you can hope for is a something that might add a small bump to some stat.

The question becomes, what is the point in artifacts now? At what point does collecting more become a waste? What is the optimal artifacts/per hour?

Once you've got all the artifact buildings on each planet where it matters, and your ship can kill most NPC with the minimal amount of hits (4 I think it is) which maximizes XP gain and NPC item farming rate (which increases items not gained from AP), and you get enough of the other stuff that you can use it on demand (traps, neural interface each level/cube, shield amps every day), then you don't need to increase AP anymore. I don't really see a limit tho, most people are far below that level unless they already spent money in which case the whole buying artifacts with GP isn't the issue for them.

I agree but what is the break even point? I am at 6700 artifact points per hour and I still get mostly items with little or no real value. Most of the artifacts you can gain from a resource draw are going to increase your stats so minimally that they aren't going to have any real effect on your battle power.

For example:

A player has 1500 attack power
a 10% boost to attack power adds 150 attack points
that means you have to make 10 attacks before you get enough benefits from that artifact to equal 1 normal attack

On an NPC that is level matched that 150 point boost is not going to make enough difference to get you to 4 or 5 hits per kill. Even with other artifacts stacked on you are looking at a small increase of strength. And most players do not have enough energy to take full advantage of the artifacts. They simply run out of power before they get their money's worth. That goes back to encouraging you to pay real dollars for more energy.

Sure the little things help the little players but really they need the bigger items more than I do but are less likely to get them. Again, I understand the point is to get you to pay real money for things but most people won't.

So the question comes back to where is the value in artifact production anymore?

Well, the value of small (size 1) artifact buildings is they are almost 2x as efficient as +10 buildings for the size, you should always have a full set on each new planet then fill in with regular buildings (in most cases). You've probably got plenty with your AP production (I'm only at 1200 myself). My statistics so far indicate the each of 60 items are dropped equally, minus terraformer, flux, melter, and expander which are now NPC drop only I guess until confirmed otherwise. So we're looking at artifact buildings, neural interface has some real value (+15% XP), but mostly you get more than 1 rank point worth of ship boosts per 10k AP according to 2 data sets that were collected. Consider your entire crew and decks; do you still feel that a boost to any of them is worth it? Given that artifacts exist to help planets and the ship grow, if you are mostly at a point where you perceive no benefit and you are missing out on some part of the game (the mega planets), you can only really NPC farm for the items and it will take a long time. idk what else to tell you, the perma boost to ship and artifact buildings for planets, that's really all to hope for here among the random buffs.

But you are missing the point, many items like Nueral implants are useless without energy. Most players don't have enough energy to use them to their full extent. So you have to buy energy refills or take a minimal return on them.

Planetary structure artifacts are useless without good planets to put them on. How do you improve a planet? You have to buy energy to fight NPCs because the NPCS that drop those artifacts are so few and far between that you are more likely to run out of energy than find one. Or buy the terra forming artifacts.

I have a high artifact intake and I get enough chassis buildings to use them all on every planet I have colonized. I even resorted to using warp gates on gas planets.

First off, I'd like to say that Dan is doing a great job. This is a difficult game to balance.

I think the real question is, what suggestions can you make that would improve the system that is being used now? (that helps out everyone but doesn't imbalance the game)

The I would go with the suggestion (someone else's but I can't remember who) that the "so abundant they're useless" artifacts can be expended on missions to get cool stuff.

Me too... and I still have 13 sitting in my hold!


I agree, great job and difficult to balance. I know that minor changes in Planetary Fluxs would help I think. The basic idea is that you can only use it if you've own the planet for 24 hours. Instead of being able to run off after taking a planet, you (and your legion) would have to hold it for 24 hours. This would allow the original owner the time to try to retake it. If they can't, you've earned the right to have it.

Dan can still sell the 'thief' planet flux (those like it is now).

It the mass-ice melter is too powerful, create a ice melter to take it's spot. Creates a hybrid oceanic-ice planet that only gets a 1 size/1 resource upgrade. You can use more than one to make it a full oceanic.

Some of the 'space alchemy' I posted in a different thread would allow lower artifact generating people to 'make' more expensive stuff with pieces.

You are right, it is hard because people with high artifacts always have some advantage over those that don't. At the same time, those that started earlier have a bigger advantage. Reducing some of that advantage by making less powerful versions of things might help a little.

The ones that permanently increase the size and quality of the planet, the problem is if it's an artifact drop all the planets in the game start to increase, and I think he saw this and stopped it. For new players the average planet is going to depend on what they can find naturally, with a few boosts from missions and NPCs but basically that's it.

I suggest reinstating terraforming artifacts into planet draws any not making them simply a "if you want it you have to pay one way or the other" item.

The easiest way to do this would to make the truly valuable ones cost more artifact points.

For example:
A Mass Ice Melter is increased from 14,000 to 40,000 artifact points.
If you don't have 40,000 artifact points you have the same chance of drawing one whether you are level 50 or 500.
If you have high artifact resources, the chances of you constantly getting them are greatly reduced because it still takes longer to save 40,000 points

Raising the cost to 40,000 creates a limit that you would have to have 40 planets just to get a chance at it (that means level 156 at least) and that making it more common would make the 300+ level players (that get a lot of artifacts already) would turn every single ice planet they have into oceans.

You are incorrect.

Currently with any draw artifact your odds of getting it are based on the amount of points you have at the time of the draw. The more points you have, the better your odds

You have a smaller chance of getting an item when you have less than its normal value. Having the valued amount of points, merely betters your chances, it does not guarantee a specific item.

For example an item is worth 10,000 points (and these aren't the real odds):
If you have 5,000 points your odds may be 1 in 100 chance
If you have 10,000 points your odds may be 1 in 75 chance

Also, the number of planets have nothing to do with your odds. A person with 4 planets and 10,000 points has the same odds as a person with 40 planets and 10,000 points.

One more thing. The odds do not change for someone based on the hourly production. They are based solely on the amount of points at the time of draw. Wether it took you 2 days or 2 hours to save 10,000 points, your odds are the same if you have 10,000 at the time you cash them in.

So lets be clear. The odds are NOT based on number of planets, rank or hourly production. Odds are ONLY based on the item value and the amount of points you have at the time of the draw.

No, I think he means that to be able to store 40k in artifacts you need to have at least 40 planets with is level 96.

I understand that which is why the odds would be the same for anyone under the items value.

Any artifact is going to be limited to someone. You can't just remove them from the game because some people are big enough to have a better chance than others. The entire point of getting bigger is to have a better chance, to grow and earn better planets and artifacts and ship modules.

Basing everything on what makes it easy for the little guy is part of what is ruining it for those of us who have worked hard and earned better.

So spending money = working hard??

That is exactly what I was talking about.

I already know that 40,000 artifact points is the same to everyone no matter the circumstances in which they have it, but unless you buy artifact warehouses, no one below 40 planets will have the point limit capable to reach the artifact at that cost. And who says that getting a better chance at artifacts is the reason why everyone levels? I personally level to explore the vast range of capabilities possible in such a game (the reason I set Galaxy Legion above all other facebook games, even a few video games too). And knowing it won't get stale even after 300 more levels is truly epic.

Back to the point: I believe it was you who said a few months ago that all games will have to make a choice between new players or old players, and I'm glad you are at least staying consistent in your statements. Though giving low level access to such a thing does not in any way limit your ability to get it at a high level.

Do you have any evidence that higher AP than needed increases draw rate of certain things ? I was trying to prove/disprove that myself, but if you look at the other thread on it, statistically what I found is that the odds are the same of drawing any artifact in the set you can draw based on your AP at the time.

Yeah, I thought if you have less than the amount of points for something you can't get it at all, not that you have lower odds of getting it. But I do like the idea of putting things like terraformers back in the game but just greatly increasing their AP cost.

The main purpose of the "artifact strategy" is the increase in stats to your ship is gives OVER TIME. Basically, someone that's been pulling an average of 3000 artifacts per hour over 300 levels is going to have a noticably better ship than somone that has had an average of 1000 artifacts per hour over those same 300 levels. Of course this is altered even more by the speed at wich they level. Someone who levels slower, gets more artifact pulls per level, has even more chances to get ship improvements. This to me is the main reason to have an artifact heavy build. As for having an arti heavy build to increase your chances of getting Terraformers, quasi expanders, fluxes, etc., although that does help in those reguards, the drop rates are so low to begin with I wouldn't see doing an arti heavy build strictly for these purposes.