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 Legion levied taxes 
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Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 10:52 pm
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So I was thinking about how close our Legions are starting to mirror EVE corporations and started thinking.

Right now a Legion base is both infrastructure and military base rolled up in one. On EVE, infrastructure such as system and region ownership costs money. If you don't pay you cannot setup or operate advanced buildings such as X-large ship assembly arrays for building supercaps.

To help pay those fee's alliances levy taxes against their member corporations which in turn tax a certain % of their individual pilots.

So why not have the option that now makes donating minimum requirements automatic to the legion. Most of the code already exists as the abstract "tax" you get hit by just for selling minerals.

So if this change happens, legion leaders can set an adjustable auto-tax which will happen after the mineral tax occurs.
A standard aidonium is around 17,677,527
After the standard tax you would receive approximately 14,142,022.
Now if the legion tax existed, it would cut into that 14 billion and change and that tax money automatically goes directly to the legion base funds.

Assuming an average "fair" tax rate of 10% the legion would gain just over 1 billion off every aidonium if you sold only 1.

Now this auto tax will not stop players from donating more pon their own, and ensures all players are taxed relatively evenly by basing it on individual mineral sales.

Possible abuses:
1) tax rates set really high?
Response: suck it up, or find a new legion
2) leaders who constantly adjust tax rates to give certain individuals lower tax rates?
Response: again suck it up or find a new home.

Right now donating to the legion base funds is built both upon honor system, and this just evens out the play field. If a pilot wants to donate 90% of their income let them. But this stops freeloaders, and you can always build the cash withdrawal base building to give funds back out. Or just set a 0% tax rate.

Sparky wrote:
And for those legions that have at least at least x days upkeep already stored no tax should be taken.

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Last edited by Mandalore on Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:19 pm, edited 1 time in total.



Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:33 am
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Will really help with legions that are struggling to get members to donate, as their base is of a low fund. A big +1..

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Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:34 am
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maybe rather than have the tax rates adjustable have setting like equal where the upkeep off the base is dived equally among all members so for a 10b base upkeep in a 60 man legion everybody pays 166m in tax each day

then maybe a % so each member pays a % which scales on your rank

i dont think the tax should be able to target a specific player or be able to charge more than the base upkeep

would have base contributions still which could be used for upgrades or legion trades etc

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Sat Apr 14, 2012 3:55 am
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Totally agree. +!


Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:17 am
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By having it adjustable and specific it's more flexible.
Some members may not be able to contribute 166 mil (especially if they are low rank)

By making it an adjustable % based on mineral shipments its fair and the coding is able to be ripped off the existing tax rate.

This still puts the major "burden" of funding a base on higher ranks. But its a good balance between low and high ranks while remaining relatively fair. So yes a high rank may be donating 2 billion a day and a lower rank may only donate 2 million but because it is still only 10% (assuming legion tax is 10% anyways) then its fair for both ships.

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Sat Apr 14, 2012 4:18 am
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I like this idea very much, means people don't just come into the legion and feed off of it, they have to give a bit back too.


Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:24 am
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Looks good on the surface, but not everyone is in a position to donate to their base on a regular basis. Those who already struggle with upkeep could be crippled by this.

That aside, +1...

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Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:32 am
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How about, to simplify things, a legion base module that "collects" 1/2 to 1/4 of all member's mineral tax. So for every 100 credits worth of minerals sold, you lose 20% anyway. of this 20, 5 or 10 would be auto-donated to the base.

Still, a good idea.

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Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:33 am
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-1 Some people can barely scrape by with their upkeep, what's a tax going to do to them? Some people worked hard to join the legions they did, should they be denied a good legion because they can't afford to pay extra?

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Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:04 pm
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+1 i think every1 should help on base upkeep :?
Billik wrote:
-1 Some people can barely scrape by with their upkeep, what's a tax going to do to them? Some people worked hard to join the legions they did, should they be denied a good legion because they can't afford to pay extra?
yeah i see where your coming from but think about it like this should the higher ranks have to pay extra and almost all the upkeep divided by a handful of loyal legion members ? why should the higher ranks be punished :x

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Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:31 pm
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+1, its a great idea.

As for Billik's comment, if a person can't afford to make their upkeep or scrapes by quite regularly, then perhaps the should downgrade their modules to an affordable upkeep. That pretty much applies to anyone.


Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:51 pm
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Well I support this idea. And for those who are saying they are "crippled" by upkeep, uninstall a few modules. Generally, upkeep is only a small percentage of your income. My upkeep is less than 2% of my income. I only have 12m upkeep (I don't have any cannons installed), but I'm only a lvl 143. I get around 500m, if not more, a day AFTER the mineral-selling tax.

Currently, in my legion, we have a struggle to pay upkeep. We used to have 10b upkeep, but we reduced it to 5.2b because 10b was too high. Only a few dedicated members donate significantly to the base everyday. Our legion leader has to donate around 20b every few days just for upkeep. Anywhere from 10-25% tax of your income going to base isn't going to destroy you. I usually have an excess of credits.

Also, if the upkeep/tax is too much for you, the legion could switch over to some mining production, to give members more credits overall. My legion did that, and now we don't struggle as much with base upkeep.

Finally, whoever said to split the upkeep evenly, no offense, but that was just stupid. My legion has a few low levels in it (under 20). They can't afford to pay 167m per day; I can barely afford to pay it. They don't even make close to that much. Rather, donating a percentage of your income is a great idea, because you still get a lot of money from mineral shipments, and the base gets funds. Also, the higher levels donate more because they can, the lower levels donate less because they can't donate more. It's a win-win.

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Sat Apr 14, 2012 12:57 pm
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After thinking it over for a few hours, this idea has some merit, but an even contribution can't work. I pull in a bit over 100 mil a day, 44 million of that goes into upkeep, average level 6 base costs about 6-8 billion a day divide that by 60 and your looking at about 100-130 million a day, I can't pull that off. Bring an idea that bases payment on rank or production I will support it, but even split, think of what'd happen to Namalak's legion...

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Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:00 pm
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f3ar3dlegend wrote:
Well I support this idea. And for those who are saying they are "crippled" by upkeep, uninstall a few modules. Generally, upkeep is only a small percentage of your income. My upkeep is less than 2% of my income. I only have 12m upkeep (I don't have any cannons installed), but I'm only a lvl 143. I get around 500m, if not more, a day AFTER the mineral-selling tax.


Your upkeep is only 12M? At 166, mine is 448.1M, and I pull about 1.5B. I worry about how weak your ship is... even most SSBs have a higher upkeep than that...

And yes, the even contribution idea was stupid. A % of your minerals, yes.

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Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:14 pm
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And for those legions that have at least at least x days upkeep already stored no tax should be taken.

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Sat Apr 14, 2012 2:26 pm
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Great idea Sparky, I'm going to add that to post #1.

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Sat Apr 14, 2012 6:18 pm
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Mandalore wrote:
So I was thinking about how close our Legions are starting to mirror EVE corporations and started thinking.

Right now a Legion base is both infrastructure and military base rolled up in one. On EVE, infrastructure such as system and region ownership costs money. If you don't pay you cannot setup or operate advanced buildings such as X-large ship assembly arrays for building supercaps.

To help pay those fee's alliances levy taxes against their member corporations which in turn tax a certain % of their individual pilots.

So why not have the option that now makes donating minimum requirements automatic to the legion. Most of the code already exists as the abstract "tax" you get hit by just for selling minerals.

So if this change happens, legion leaders can set an adjustable auto-tax which will happen after the mineral tax occurs.
A standard aidonium is around 17,677,527
After the standard tax you would receive approximately 14,142,022.
Now if the legion tax existed, it would cut into that 14 billion and change and that tax money automatically goes directly to the legion base funds.

Assuming an average "fair" tax rate of 10% the legion would gain just over 1 billion off every aidonium if you sold only 1.

Now this auto tax will not stop players from donating more pon their own, and ensures all players are taxed relatively evenly by basing it on individual mineral sales.

Possible abuses:
1) tax rates set really high?
Response: suck it up, or find a new legion. Setting the maximum tax rate at for example 25% might fix that.
Also, Dan could add a list of all members, with a check-box next to them, those who are un-checked don't have to pay the taxes, thus helping those who barely scrape by or who are already donating lots of cash.
2) leaders who constantly adjust tax rates to give certain individuals lower tax rates?
Response: again suck it up or find a new home. making it so taxes can only be adjust once per day or so would fix this.

Right now donating to the legion base funds is built both upon honor system, and this just evens out the play field. If a pilot wants to donate 90% of their income let them. But this stops freeloaders, and you can always build the cash withdrawal base building to give funds back out. Or just set a 0% tax rate.

Sparky wrote:
And for those legions that have at least at least x days upkeep already stored no tax should be taken.

thunderbolta wrote:
Looks good on the surface, but not everyone is in a position to donate to their base on a regular basis. Those who already struggle with upkeep could be crippled by this.

That aside, +1...


If your struggling with upkeep odds are there is someone in the legion who can help you. and even if there isnt, its no harder to survive than to simply downgrade your modules, or upgrade your mining.

So from me, a big +1.


Sat Apr 14, 2012 9:14 pm
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Can't say I agree with having a cap on the tax. But I'm used to having taxes go to 100% during an eve CTA as an incentive to show up.

The limit of 1 tax change a day is well thought and I will adjust first post as soon as my BlackBerry let's me.

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Sat Apr 14, 2012 10:58 pm
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Mandalore wrote:
Can't say I agree with having a cap on the tax. But I'm used to having taxes go to 100% during an eve CTA as an incentive to show up.

The limit of 1 tax change a day is well thought and I will adjust first post as soon as my BlackBerry let's me.


Well, taxes couldn't go higher than 80% anyway, since the market fee is already 20%. Or maybe theres a way around it, I dont know.
But i figure it would stop the legion from taking all your money. But of course, you could for example set it high on weekends, and then lower again for the rest of the week. make sure the people in your legion save up enough credits to survive the upkeep.


Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:15 pm
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if a legion sets more then 25% then I would leave the legion instantly

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Sat Apr 14, 2012 11:29 pm
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