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 Legion levied taxes 
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Joined: Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:17 am
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I agree with the tax . Make it where the percentage goes from 0-5% being the max. If a person is barley making it one of 3 things can be done another member can help that legion mate out , he or she can remove mods or base money can be given to that person as that would be from everyone not just one person .


Sun Apr 15, 2012 1:18 am
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Joined: Sun Oct 30, 2011 7:41 am
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Definite +1

I understand smaller ship ranks trying to get into bigger legions with bigger bases to make their ships awesomely strong at their ranks, but they still need to contribute, even if it is just a small amount. It's the least that can be expected of anybody in a legion I think....even if they think that a 10 million credit deposit isn't worth it with a 10 billion per day upkeep. It all adds up when every member is giving what they can, so this tax would fix that issue of members not giving their share.
It should definitely be a % tax so all are hit with a fair amount for their daily intake.
If anybody is not able to do this because they can't keep up with their upkeep, then as others stated, drop some modules or downgrade to cheaper ones. Having all research and artifact planets is definitely better for building your ship, but you need to be able to sustain yourself, and not rely on others all the time. Get some mineral planets, and make your own way. If legion mates are willing to help out, that is obviously fine and their right, but people need to quit expecting free hand outs all the time.
Leaders should be able to adjust the tax rate at their choosing as high or as low as they would like. If you don't like it then you leave and find another legion with a leader you agree with. That's already how it works anyway.

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Sun Apr 15, 2012 5:07 am
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I still think the commerce module on base should just recover 1-3% of the mineral taxes into the base.

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Sun Apr 15, 2012 12:05 pm
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Mandalore wrote:
So I was thinking about how close our Legions are starting to mirror EVE corporations and started thinking.

Right now a Legion base is both infrastructure and military base rolled up in one. On EVE, infrastructure such as system and region ownership costs money. If you don't pay you cannot setup or operate advanced buildings such as X-large ship assembly arrays for building supercaps.

To help pay those fee's alliances levy taxes against their member corporations which in turn tax a certain % of their individual pilots.

So why not have the option that now makes donating minimum requirements automatic to the legion. Most of the code already exists as the abstract "tax" you get hit by just for selling minerals.

So if this change happens, legion leaders can set an adjustable auto-tax which will happen after the mineral tax occurs.
A standard aidonium is around 17,677,527
After the standard tax you would receive approximately 14,142,022.
Now if the legion tax existed, it would cut into that 14 billion and change and that tax money automatically goes directly to the legion base funds.

Assuming an average "fair" tax rate of 10% the legion would gain just over 1 billion off every aidonium if you sold only 1.

Now this auto tax will not stop players from donating more pon their own, and ensures all players are taxed relatively evenly by basing it on individual mineral sales.

Possible abuses:
1) tax rates set really high?
Response: suck it up, or find a new legion
2) leaders who constantly adjust tax rates to give certain individuals lower tax rates?
Response: again suck it up or find a new home.

Right now donating to the legion base funds is built both upon honor system, and this just evens out the play field. If a pilot wants to donate 90% of their income let them. But this stops freeloaders, and you can always build the cash withdrawal base building to give funds back out. Or just set a 0% tax rate.

Sparky wrote:
And for those legions that have at least at least x days upkeep already stored no tax should be taken.


I fly Sansha ships, and am Loyal to Sansha's nation. I do not pay taxes, I am the True Sansha, not the True Slaves, Thank you very much! - Though Yes, we should have this in galaxy legion.

Just for a joke, ME: http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/File:Nightmare1.jpg

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Sun Apr 15, 2012 11:25 pm
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Joined: Fri Dec 24, 2010 10:52 pm
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I love my incursion Nightmare. Makes isk so fast I can't buy cap ships fast enough.
But I attill disagree on Commerce module recovering a % of income.

For starters, a lot of bases are jam packed as it is until you reach base level 6 or higher. I know our lvl 5 base can't handle anymore structures and we have used as many structural expanders as possible.

Another reason is leaders and officers can't be tempted to "help themselves" from time to time. I saw that as an issue early on when bases were still very new. Without said bay, there won't be temptations.

Thirdly the idea as it stands could probably be enabled within days, as it could rip most of the existing mineral tax, add in some code to tie in legion controllable tax, and the tax going to the base instead of vanishing.

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Mon Apr 16, 2012 3:46 am
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Mandalore wrote:
I love my incursion Nightmare. Makes isk so fast I can't buy cap ships fast enough.
But I attill disagree on Commerce module recovering a % of income.



I know this is off-topic, but if you've got that much money, you should start a shipwright. Get a small POS, with a ship assembly array, and make one of the faction frigate for sale to the beginner players who don't want to risk nullsec to get the ship themselves.

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Tue Apr 17, 2012 5:43 am
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Joined: Fri Jul 08, 2011 9:34 am
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Why not just tie the amount of cash that a player donates with the base output of resources? The leader would be able to adjust all of the contributions % so that contributions would be more responsive to each legions needs when managed effectively. That would give more of an incentive for players to donate energy, EM, Tech Parts, as well as cash. I really do not like the Idea of a forced tax heaped upon the existing tax, if it were implemented I would almost certainly quit the game.


Tue Apr 17, 2012 8:22 am
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+1!! this is could be a major improvement to the game!!

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Tue Apr 17, 2012 11:03 am
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topgun1900 wrote:
Why not just tie the amount of cash that a player donates with the base output of resources? The leader would be able to adjust all of the contributions % so that contributions would be more responsive to each legions needs when managed effectively. That would give more of an incentive for players to donate energy, EM, Tech Parts, as well as cash. I really do not like the Idea of a forced tax heaped upon the existing tax, if it were implemented I would almost certainly quit the game.


The contributions of energy, EM and tech parts only matter during a push to upgrade your base. Cash is mandatory due to upkeep. And from what I have seen, many "low" players refuse to pay anything claiming "I can barely meet upkeep at is is".... some guys in my legion of AU are like rank 80 with heavy null rays equipped. And they don't pay a dime to the legion base, forcing us higher ranks to have to chip in even more.

Also, what if your base doesn't produce minerals at all? I know at AU we are 98% artifact, with a touch of research. Can't tax that to give credits to pay for base module upkeep/repairs can we?

As for "forced tax", like with another suggestion, nobody is saying your legion leaders MUST pick a tax rate. Could set it to 0% and remain with voluntary donations of cash. This suggestion is to give us the option to force payment from free loaders, while remaining fair via the % of total income instead of the flat rate spread across all members.

As stated, a low rank can't afford 200mil per day, but with the % he may only pay 20mil which becomes much more affordable.

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Tue Apr 17, 2012 7:45 pm
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small bump hoping for notice by Dan before I let this fall off

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Sat Apr 21, 2012 6:04 pm
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It should be a tax on the minerals we sell. Some of us are not able to get on everyday and keep selling. Some people are gone for days at a time. I know I can't get on everyday, and the current upkeep costs have really hurt my personal credits. I used to have 12b in credits, I am now down to 6b. My upkeep is only 221m. An automatic legion tax would seriously hurt me. I am all for giving 10% of what I sell, but only when I sell.


Sun Apr 22, 2012 6:49 pm
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Cdv91 wrote:
It should be a tax on the minerals we sell. Some of us are not able to get on everyday and keep selling. Some people are gone for days at a time. I know I can't get on everyday, and the current upkeep costs have really hurt my personal credits. I used to have 12b in credits, I am now down to 6b. My upkeep is only 221m. An automatic legion tax would seriously hurt me. I am all for giving 10% of what I sell, but only when I sell.


The suggestion IS a tax on the minerals sold. I'm just asking that the tax is automatically applied, instead of leaving the current "donate money to legion" as voluntary.

If you sell minerals 30 times a day, then you submit 30 sets of taxed credits to legion funds. If you sell minerals once a day, then you only give taxes once. I'm just asking for the option to remove the "voluntary" part of taxes.

Afterall, unless you remove all production buildings from your base, there is no way to stop people from getting their daily production from the base. So they get to take, and take, and take. But there's nothing to make them give back, small or large. This gives the "give and take" back to legions.

Legions give:
base production
planetary defence bonus
ability to use CT labs and other base advantages like UST
ability for more people to help you with NPC's/players

Players give:
nothing that isn't voluntarily given. (nobody forces you to alert npcs, players. planets, or donate credits/ematter/CTP/energy)

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Thu Apr 26, 2012 4:41 pm
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Perhaps allow the legion leaders to set multiple tax brackets? That way people can have a lower tax for the n00bs that they're shepherding to awesomness and productivity or for people who need to save up for a big purchase, etc. Abusable? Possibly. Also, handy... and a way to punish people who violate legion rules short of kicking them.

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Thu Apr 26, 2012 6:14 pm
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DaTonGai wrote:
Perhaps allow the legion leaders to set multiple tax brackets? That way people can have a lower tax for the n00bs that they're shepherding to awesomness and productivity or for people who need to save up for a big purchase, etc. Abusable? Possibly. Also, handy... and a way to punish people who violate legion rules short of kicking them.


Multiple tax brackets could be useful. I suggested only 1 for faster implementation, but the ability to "punish" without removing loyalty by simply kicking player x to a higher tax bracket would be nice.

When I'm not using a BlackBerry to check forums, I will edit OP with this suggestion/quote.

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Fri Apr 27, 2012 4:51 pm
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I would suggest that if you Moved the legions to tax there members. I believe it like-wise in nature to remove the mineral sale tax.

- NO Mineral sales Tax

- Yes to Legion tax-ability

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Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:05 pm
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+1
As for all the people complaining about abusive legions.
- Any legion that is abusive will drop members fast, I.E they will lose members, and lose benefits.
- As for the "crippled" players, i understand this, but if the legion base is costing you 166m a day, you can almost bet its giving you that + more per day.
- i like the idea of adjustment i would suggest that a legion can only chat taxes once a day.
- Lastly, maybe leave an option to forfeit the legion in take, for the following day, and then the current day the tax doesn't apply so that members who are totally broke will just not take in the legion output for one day.

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Fri Apr 27, 2012 5:30 pm
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Huh. I kinda like that "if you don't pull your base production, you don't pay tax that day." Doesn't work for bases set to auto-distribute base production, though.

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Fri Apr 27, 2012 6:49 pm
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I do see a possible conflict if lower members cannot pay the legion tax. how do you purpose this be handled?

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Sat Apr 28, 2012 3:35 pm
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Mandalore wrote:
Cdv91 wrote:
It should be a tax on the minerals we sell. Some of us are not able to get on everyday and keep selling. Some people are gone for days at a time. I know I can't get on everyday, and the current upkeep costs have really hurt my personal credits. I used to have 12b in credits, I am now down to 6b. My upkeep is only 221m. An automatic legion tax would seriously hurt me. I am all for giving 10% of what I sell, but only when I sell.


The suggestion IS a tax on the minerals sold. I'm just asking that the tax is automatically applied, instead of leaving the current "donate money to legion" as voluntary.

If you sell minerals 30 times a day, then you submit 30 sets of taxed credits to legion funds. If you sell minerals once a day, then you only give taxes once. I'm just asking for the option to remove the "voluntary" part of taxes.

Afterall, unless you remove all production buildings from your base, there is no way to stop people from getting their daily production from the base. So they get to take, and take, and take. But there's nothing to make them give back, small or large. This gives the "give and take" back to legions.

Legions give:
base production
planetary defence bonus
ability to use CT labs and other base advantages like UST
ability for more people to help you with NPC's/players

Players give:
nothing that isn't voluntarily given. (nobody forces you to alert npcs, players. planets, or donate credits/ematter/CTP/energy)

I know, but some people suggested an automatic tax.


Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:16 pm
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The day someone other than Dan tells ME what I am REQUIRED to spend MY resources on... That's the day I quit.

TU's base upkeep is LESS than MY SHIP's upkeep. For every one of you saying "oh bases are so expensive, it's so hard to pay for the base upkeep" I say this.... It's not the base that is the problem. It is your management of the base and it is your crew. If you can't pay your base upkeep, or struggle nearly every day to pay it, that means you have too much stuff on it. What do you knuckleheads do when you're that close to the line on your ship?? You downgrade some of your equipment. Do that with your base too. Problem solved. If you want to increase the number of credits in your base coffers, offer incentives. Run a giveaway. Person with the most credits donated per rank gets xx TMs or Nanos. Set a credit balance goal and give a really nice planet to a random contributor. Stuff like that. This is a social network people, NOT a governmentally regulated economy.

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Sat Apr 28, 2012 11:51 pm
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