Lessons From the Dysonian crew
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Toastar
Joined: Thu May 26, 2011 4:45 am
Posts: 1338
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I like it a lot, and like that legions could decide for themselves which setup they wanted. Players would know what they were getting into when they joined. My only question is, how would the legion change from one mode of government to another? By whatever voting mechanism it currently uses?
Also, what if people don't vote? Would there be a time limit, after which the active votes are used to make the decision?
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| Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:38 pm |
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namalak
Joined: Mon Nov 14, 2011 9:28 pm
Posts: 764
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Toastar wrote: I like it a lot, and like that legions could decide for themselves which setup they wanted. Players would know what they were getting into when they joined. My only question is, how would the legion change from one mode of government to another? By whatever voting mechanism it currently uses?
Also, what if people don't vote? Would there be a time limit, after which the active votes are used to make the decision? 
"You might have disabled my ship but my friend just acquired majority stock in your legion. Oh, did the shareholders just vote you out? Moo-hahaha!"_________________ 8th Level Base Legion, No Minimum Rank Requirement
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| Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:46 pm |
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thunderbolta
Joined: Sat May 07, 2011 11:01 am
Posts: 5825
Location: Zolar
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I have an ominous feeling that people are going to have a natural distrust of empirical legions, whilst it's going to be impossible to change from a democracy/oligarchy should you choose to. Many aspects could suffer under both of those governments, in particular quick decision making.
I think, I would have to end up having it on empirical, but act as an oligarchy...
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| Tue Mar 26, 2013 3:50 pm |
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Uy23e
Joined: Fri Sep 16, 2011 12:04 am
Posts: 1998
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 thunderbolta wrote: I have an ominous feeling that people are going to have a natural distrust of empirical legions, whilst it's going to be impossible to change from a democracy/oligarchy should you choose to. Many aspects could suffer under both of those governments, in particular quick decision making.
I think, I would have to end up having it on empirical, but act as an oligarchy... Maybe somewhat of a mix would be better. Where even in olig or demo mode, each leader is allowed one empirical action* per day where they can do anything they want, but any additional actions would require a vote. Allow speedy decisions when there is need of haste but overall maintain it so that one(or few) person can't kill the legion instantly. Furthermore, perhaps allow custom % votes required to pass an action(under the condition that fewer number oppose it). For example, there is no particular reason why promotion to or demotion from officer rank requires a majority vote in demo mode, as officer isn't all that powerful in demo mode. So perhaps a legion can set a 30% vote can requirement to pass the action. Again, this is under the condition that there are fewer number of votes against the action at the time this limit is reached. This will allow a quicker action instead of waiting for 50+% to come online and vote on the matter. The reason this whole discussion started is because the concept of "having it on empirical, but act as an oligarchy" have failed. I'm sure the dysos fully intended to be a olig and usually operated as such. But in the one moment of madness, the official empirical nature killed it. So what's needed is a system reinforced method to prevent it and as such those "acting as" stuff can't really be taken as part of consideration. *of course, the action would have to be restricted to certain types. They definitely can't just change the governing mode using this power, for example. Maybe some additional restricts on top of that.
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当所有传奇写下第一个篇章 原来所谓英雄也和我们一样
私は一発の銃弾、銃弾は人の心を持たない。故に、何も考えない。ただ、目的に向かって飛ぶだけ
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| Tue Mar 26, 2013 8:15 pm |
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zackgiddings93
Joined: Wed Sep 26, 2012 8:50 pm
Posts: 75
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+1
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| Wed Mar 27, 2013 1:08 am |
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playret0195x
Joined: Thu Aug 11, 2011 9:48 pm
Posts: 2251
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Preliator Xzien wrote: webguydan wrote: Currently, legions are setup as hierarchies, with the leader(s) having absolute power. We shelved Legion Governments from the drawing board a while back, but it sounds like its finally time to bring those ideas back to the burner.
Here are our current thoughts on a potential change (we can call it governments again for simplicity):
Voting Majority (Democracy) - in this mode, all membership-related decisions* require a majority vote from active legion members.
Voting Council (Oligarchy) - in this mode, all membership-related decisions* require a majority vote from active officers and leaders.
Hierarchy (Empire) - in this mode, actions do not require a vote and the leader(s) have absolute authority to make decisions. [This is the current setup for existing legions]
* Membership-related decisions include kicking, disbanding, promotion/demotion, and changing the legion government.
Legions would initially choose which type of government they want.
When voting, decisions are 'queued' until a vote finishes, and is either accepted by vote, rejected by vote, or rejected due to insufficient votes after a set time passes. A new 'Votes' area will collect these votes from within the legion, and notifications will be sent out via the legion comm. Voting results will remain on record for 30 days.
In Voting Majority and Voting Council modes, a 'Nominate Leader' option would also be available, which will vote on an the addition of another Leader.
Regarding the many ideas proposed for a cooldown on kicking: though that would certainly be an option, it would only slow down a leader from making decisions that the majority of the legion did not agree with, but it would not prevent it. amen _________________
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| Wed Mar 27, 2013 7:33 pm |
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DarthRavadge
Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 4:26 pm
Posts: 1621
Location: Orbiting the ruins of your base
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webguydan wrote: Currently, legions are setup as hierarchies, with the leader(s) having absolute power. We shelved Legion Governments from the drawing board a while back, but it sounds like its finally time to bring those ideas back to the burner.
Here are our current thoughts on a potential change (we can call it governments again for simplicity):
Voting Majority (Democracy) - in this mode, all membership-related decisions* require a majority vote from active legion members.
Voting Council (Oligarchy) - in this mode, all membership-related decisions* require a majority vote from active officers and leaders.
Hierarchy (Empire) - in this mode, actions do not require a vote and the leader(s) have absolute authority to make decisions. [This is the current setup for existing legions]
* Membership-related decisions include kicking, disbanding, promotion/demotion, and changing the legion government.
Legions would initially choose which type of government they want.
When voting, decisions are 'queued' until a vote finishes, and is either accepted by vote, rejected by vote, or rejected due to insufficient votes after a set time passes. A new 'Votes' area will collect these votes from within the legion, and notifications will be sent out via the legion comm. Voting results will remain on record for 30 days.
In Voting Majority and Voting Council modes, a 'Nominate Leader' option would also be available, which will vote on an the addition of another Leader.
Regarding the many ideas proposed for a cooldown on kicking: though that would certainly be an option, it would only slow down a leader from making decisions that the majority of the legion did not agree with, but it would not prevent it. This sounds perfect. Everybody gets their way. Good plan Dan.  _________________ "Honor is a fool's prize, glory is of no use to the dead"
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| Thu Mar 28, 2013 12:01 pm |
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Peticks
Joined: Wed Sep 19, 2012 9:44 pm
Posts: 1997
Location: Causing chaos somewhere
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I think in voting council and democracy accepting requests and kicking should be allowed witout a vote but promotion and demotion should require a vote. So if there was a legion with two leaders and four officers they could kick and accept freely but if the oldest leader tried to do what blitz did the others could vote him out then kick him.
Otherwise it could take a long time for any request/removal of inactives to go through
_________________  Meow chika meow meow!!Stark Tech Inside
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| Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:07 pm |
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Radmo
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:49 am
Posts: 140
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Before pointing fingers ........... I wouldn't blame this all on blitz .......... until you get all the facts ..... he just didn't decide to kick everyone .....
but I do like the idea of setting up voting ....... it would stabilize and set up a political system ....
That's my take on this .... fly safe everyone ............
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| Sun Mar 31, 2013 2:43 pm |
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Chris24markey
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:58 pm
Posts: 1146
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Radmo wrote: Before pointing fingers ........... I wouldn't blame this all on blitz .......... until you get all the facts ..... he just didn't decide to kick everyone .....
but I do like the idea of setting up voting ....... it would stabilize and set up a political system ....
That's my take on this .... fly safe everyone ............ FYI did decide to just kick everyone even after many times of trying to promote a leader that would lead. He was just a figurhead and was not a real leader. Never was. the legion was not his, he was just a long term vet as myself and many others still in that the legion was turned over to so nocifer could retire. FYI did decide to just kick everyone even after many times of trying to promote a leader that would lead. He was just a figurehead and was not a real leader. Never was. the legion was not his, he was just a long term vet as myself and many others still in that the legion was turned over to so nocifer could retire. He wanted the legion to do his dirty work, and brought endless drama into the legion over one player the last few months. That alone with the rules we had in place since the creation of the legion, well he should have booted himself, if he wanted to follow the chatter of the dysonians so well. But he was not man enough to do the right thing, instead he threw a temper tantrum and now it made really no difference.
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as always Semper Fidelis
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| Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:10 pm |
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Radmo
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:49 am
Posts: 140
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Thanks for the information on this ........... I told him.. Blitz , about a year ago ... that he needs to establish a ranking in his legion, That he needs more leaders and officers. if he didn't it would fall apart .... And sure enough it did .
one thing I will tell you ..... if you want to know the future all you have to do is master the past ..... legions that have no compassion on other lower legions and repeatedly attack without mercy,.....They eventually fall ...... I've seen this happen over and over again .... there's always compassion on the battlefield .... I'm talking about a reputation of bullying ....... it doesn't take long for the word to get around .... and this is my point .... this is exactly what happened here .... Also this exposes the Legion player for what he really is ........ ((( one has to wonder if the person is safe to be in society ?? ))) I know that this is just a game but some people take it beyond that... that's when it gets scary.
What's in the darkness will be brought into the light and when it's exposed to the light it loses its power ! ! ! It's never a good idea to draw attention in that manner ...
when we fight we do it with honor and respect ..........
Anyway ............. that's my take on all this .... To my legion players on galaxy Legion ... good hunting ... and fight with dignity and respect ...
P.S. As far as blitz is concerned ..... he's never treated me disrespectfully always with honor ..... something is not right here ! something is very wrong ! I feel that we are not getting the whole correct story .... sincerely
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| Sun Mar 31, 2013 6:29 pm |
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Chris24markey
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:58 pm
Posts: 1146
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Radmo wrote: Thanks for the information on this ........... I told him.. Blitz , about a year ago ... that he needs to establish a ranking in his legion, That he needs more leaders and officers. if he didn't it would fall apart .... And sure enough it did .
one thing I will tell you ..... if you want to know the future all you have to do is master the past ..... legions that have no compassion on other lower legions and repeatedly attack without mercy,.....They eventually fall ...... I've seen this happen over and over again .... there's always compassion on the battlefield .... I'm talking about a reputation of bullying ....... it doesn't take long for the word to get around .... and this is my point .... this is exactly what happened here .... Also this exposes the Legion player for what he really is ........ ((( one has to wonder if the person is safe to be in society ?? ))) I know that this is just a game but some people take it beyond that... that's when it gets scary.
What's in the darkness will be brought into the light and when it's exposed to the light it loses its power ! ! ! It's never a good idea to draw attention in that manner ...
when we fight we do it with honor and respect ..........
Anyway ............. that's my take on all this .... To my legion players on galaxy Legion ... good hunting ... and fight with dignity and respect ...
P.S. As far as blitz is concerned ..... he's never treated me disrespectfully always with honor ..... something is not right here ! something is very wrong ! I feel that we are not getting the whole correct story .... sincerely We did not fall apart were still very whole. He is not needed and never was needed. FYI aside from only a few members not coming with us were back in he 2nd spot on the legion board and the legion is stronger than ever. As I have been saying it was never his legion, He was never a leader. All he wanted was a pack of slaves that well he had no authority over. See were it got him all alone.
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as always Semper Fidelis
(CPL USMC)
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| Sun Mar 31, 2013 11:13 pm |
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TaylorX
Joined: Thu Dec 15, 2011 5:38 am
Posts: 183
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Glad to see improvements being made to make sure mass booting of legion members becomes a thing of the past. I feel like every time these events happen, people talk about doing something to fix the problem, but now its actually going to get fixed.
_________________TaylorXFactor, The Herder of Cats Icariums Fate Prismatic X346  
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| Mon Apr 01, 2013 12:40 am |
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Monk223
Joined: Thu Apr 21, 2011 7:00 pm
Posts: 514
Location: On the horizon of a dying star.
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Radmo wrote: Thanks for the information on this ........... I told him.. Blitz , about a year ago ... that he needs to establish a ranking in his legion, That he needs more leaders and officers. if he didn't it would fall apart .... And sure enough it did .
one thing I will tell you ..... if you want to know the future all you have to do is master the past ..... legions that have no compassion on other lower legions and repeatedly attack without mercy,.....They eventually fall ...... I've seen this happen over and over again .... there's always compassion on the battlefield .... I'm talking about a reputation of bullying ....... it doesn't take long for the word to get around .... and this is my point .... this is exactly what happened here .... Also this exposes the Legion player for what he really is ........ ((( one has to wonder if the person is safe to be in society ?? ))) I know that this is just a game but some people take it beyond that... that's when it gets scary.
What's in the darkness will be brought into the light and when it's exposed to the light it loses its power ! ! ! It's never a good idea to draw attention in that manner ...
when we fight we do it with honor and respect ..........
Anyway ............. that's my take on all this .... To my legion players on galaxy Legion ... good hunting ... and fight with dignity and respect ...
P.S. As far as blitz is concerned ..... he's never treated me disrespectfully always with honor ..... something is not right here ! something is very wrong ! I feel that we are not getting the whole correct story .... sincerely Saying the Dysonians bullied small legions is like saying any other big legion bullies. Sure, individuals may go a little too far in their actions but they're just playing the game. If the Dysonian were actually what most people accused them of, they wouldn't be looked upon with the awe that tidal waved out when this event happened. They fell because one of their leaders forgot what they stood for. That is what brings down, rl and ig, factions, not because karma decided it would take a stab in the dark for when it would come back. When a faction is created with the intent to set an example or a goal, and then along the line loses sight of what it once was, it falls. I'll just say that "word gets around" would indicate that other legions disowned them and would give no help but that did not happen. I do agree with one thing though. Blitz must've taken out whatever he had holed up on the Dysonians. I am glad to see Ghost still retained most of their former glory. _________________   wired and inspiredGo! Go! Tricky style!
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| Mon Apr 01, 2013 3:43 am |
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Radmo
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:49 am
Posts: 140
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When you bully other legions extensively it points fingers back at the leaders .... and the Legion ... for who they are ...
that's called drawing attention to yourself ...... you never know ... you might have another fluffy bunny pop up .. someplace !
at any rate yes that's part of playing the game .... remember that diplomacy is also part of playing the game ...anyway it's called good game manners ..
use the same amount of force as they use on you ... and go one step further if they don't stop ... have a little compassion on the battlefield..
... don't lose your cool ! ! ....... don't want to see your picture in the newspaper ! or on the nightly news ! LOL !
Take care .......................... good hunting ........... and fly safe ....
Romans ..... 10:9
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Red Dwarf. U.S. ARMY INFANTRY SGT.
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| Mon Apr 01, 2013 11:41 pm |
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Chris24markey
Joined: Thu Aug 05, 2010 11:58 pm
Posts: 1146
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Radmo wrote: When you bully other legions extensively it points fingers back at the leaders .... and the Legion ... for who they are ...
that's called drawing attention to yourself ...... you never know ... you might have another fluffy bunny pop up .. someplace !
at any rate yes that's part of playing the game .... remember that diplomacy is also part of playing the game ...anyway it's called good game manners ..
use the same amount of force as they use on you ... and go one step further if they don't stop ... have a little compassion on the battlefield..
... don't lose your cool ! ! ....... don't want to see your picture in the newspaper ! or on the nightly news ! LOL !
Take care .......................... good hunting ........... and fly safe ....
Romans ..... 10:9 HAHA that does not mean cheat. Oh wait to fluffy bunny it did, so that must make it ok for all!
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as always Semper Fidelis
(CPL USMC)
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| Tue Apr 02, 2013 6:47 pm |
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Radmo
Joined: Thu Oct 07, 2010 3:49 am
Posts: 140
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hahahah LOL ! I definitely forgot about that character that's for sure ! fluffy bunny the crazy maniac !I
............................................. take care
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Red Dwarf. U.S. ARMY INFANTRY SGT.
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| Wed Apr 03, 2013 3:38 am |
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Elliot_Plur
Joined: Sun Jul 29, 2012 3:51 pm
Posts: 42
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xtendacom wrote: Hi Guys,
Dan I'd like to know what mechanism can be put in the game that disallows any player from doing this to players. And if possible if there is a way of reversing this kind of abuse.
if there is no way, then there is a lesson here, which can hurt everyone in this game. It has happened before where leaders officers simply go on a mass purge. This should not be allowed.
For one; members can spend hundreds of dollars to get their base as high as us and practically our whole game career. Why does any player have the right to deprive you of your work. I can understand players being kicked because they have done something wrong. but a power trip is too much to swallow.
Id like to see possible additions where a leader/officer can only remove 2 people a day which is more than enough to halt this kind of abuse if queried with you why this is going on it can be stopped in its tracks, if you dont wish to be pestered tan make it 5 players or something.
This situation is going to see a mass retirement as for many stepping this far back is just too much were were close to unlocking level 9 base this has taken us months.
Thank you Or, require a vote from officers/leaders when it comes to booting people, rather a limit to how many people can be kicked at a time.
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| Sat Apr 06, 2013 5:13 am |
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