I propose a differt option, if you go by % of donation, and the person leaves, there shipment changes to automatic and they still get their cut.

i love how 'capitalists' always advocate the virtues of competition and free enterprise, but then when someone comes along with a different way to beat them, they cry for the intervention of higher authorities.

there is nothign wrong with the imperiums. if they have any members on the forum that are swayed by these arguments, those members will leave. but denigrating those who stay, and how those legions are run ? none of your bloody business.

Base shipments are a crutch. I was in a 3/4 shipment base for my first 6 months. I developed my ship to be strong without the base. Was the bonus from it nice...ya, but not necessary. I make more than my base does daily, when it is at its maximum, I forget to collect a lot. I actually make more when it is disabled because I remember to collect then.

Imperiums can do what they like, I don't think the leaders will be able to maintain the high fixer count as their members rank. If their members don't rank, the leaders will lose out on a lot of higher ranking NPCs, which is what the deserve since they didn't lose them due to leveling the base themselves. When the fixers go down people can start killing their base and halving their shipments. If the leaders were too dependent on the shipments they will suffer as they rank, if they are smart and invest in planets then they will be fine.

just my 2 cents.

I hope my comment isn't lumped into this. I just don't see this as a good long term strategy. Your ship is a perfect example. You gave so much stuff away and built it so much for the base, your actual production is pathetically low, granted you gave away a lot of planets when you decided to quit, but even before you had what a max of 80k? even at 14M a week from base shipments that's ~160k aph, which is less than my current production.

In the short term you are making great little ships, but you are making them dependent on the base shipment and I think in the long run the little guys who move out of the legions and develop their planets on their own without depending on the base are better off.

Rent seeking is still under the umbrella of capitalism (although most instances involve bribes and are therefore illegal). In this case they aren't paying anything, so its closer to nepotism.

I think what Kirk is forgetting is that he lives in a legion where everyone is self sufficient and they're 60 individual parts that for the most can manage without the rest of the legion.

At the Imperiums, we aren't 60 separate entities but 1 mega entity. The legion does everything as a whole and that's what makes our alliance important.

I've seen all the Imperium leaders help every member of their legion. We wouldn't be at full capacity for as long as we have if our strategy didn't work and we aren't forcing people to stay.

How often do you Kirk have people asking you to take out another ship as they've been multi hacked or raided. It's probably something fictitious or a non event for you but it's an everyday thing for the Imperium leaders. Whether through action or diplomacy, we always help our own.

I really question the timing of this post and if you're really feeling sorry for all the poor Imperium members, by all means feel free to donate - your generosity will be most appreciated.

Four days of 75k AP in an Imperium (or any other legion for that matter) makes for a weaker ship than seven days of 60k in an even split legion. While those numbers mean very little to higher rank players, it's BIG for the little guys. You know, the kind of ship that is going to be in a training legion. Unless your "leadership" is passing out AP Dysons, those little guys aren't going to make up that difference solely on planets you give them. I won't say anything "derogatory" about the Fixer count in the Imperiums, because aside from Excavator, Fixer is the best low level profession there is.

Random thought for the day: I wonder how many rank and file Imperium members are active forum users that can see other legions have to offer...

Not every legion with 7 day a week split of 60k+ a day will accept a player under rank 100-300. We do.


I have had weekly 'Beat the Nam' competitions which were specifically to get people onto the forums. Tough to get new players to join the forums.

So they get spoon-fed what info the clique decides they need or is that an indication of failed leadership?

As I am one of the "Evil Bourgeoisie" that is exploting the "Proletariat" that are my Legionmates, I will say only this: We currently have 5 Imperiums in the Alliance, containing 267 Members, Officers, and Leaders, over 95% of which are loyal, most for quite a while, IoN, for instance, has been an unqualified sucess for almost two years. Following both Marxist and Capitalist theory, this 'Proletariat' effectively controls the 'means of production' for our base shipments. If they were dissatisfied with the base shipments, they would simply leave, making the Imperium Experiment wither and die. They have, by and large, elected not to. Now, to rebutt the obvious reply "...but they don't know any better!"...our Members are not stupid or ill-informed. The rules, as well as the reasoning behind those rules, are clearly stated when one joins. Some elect to go elsewhere...many of whom return after being turned down by most other legions. Legions who aren't interested in a rank 35 Human Merchant. Or they return after have been fobbed off on the sister-to-the-sister Legion with the rank 4 base that is disabled 4 times a week, realizing there is, indeed some benefit to belonging to a level 7 base that offers advice, guidance, planets, elites, and several bases per day.

I'm sorry, Kirk, but the numbers and the continued sucess of the Imperium Alliance put paid to your accusations.

I feel there must be another, more personal reason, for these very specific attacks, but I neither know, nor care, what it is.

I say, good day to you, sir.

The way the Imperiums run their legions is not a problem. I speak from experience that they are very helpful to the low ranks and although any long term stay will be detrimental to your ship, I would recommend any sub 100 ranked ship to fly with them. Now to bring this back to kirk's initial suggestion.....

% payout should only go to current members and it should not be scaled. Let's say that for the sake of argument. Ship 1 donates 95% of the base resources. Ship 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 complete 1% each. Ship 1 leaves for whatever reason. The % payout should remain Ship 2, 3, 4, 5, and 6 only get 1% of the payout. The other 95% is either A) lost in space or B) carried over into the next shipment (ala forgetting to claim your shipment).

Thoughts?

"Or they return after realizing there are benefits to belonging to a level 7 base" <--is the true reason many of the self-entitled low rankers stay with your legions. A rank 150 player leaving your legion will invariably make a thread with "I require a lvl 7 base on even split" even when they've done absolutely nothing to deserve such a place.

Also, pointing to the continued success of the imperiums as your defence, China can do much the same to communism, is it a valid defence? No~ neither is yours

To you, I say unto thee, Good day

This is where I'd say something that I think would be useful, but in actual fact I just make things worse.

Really, Namalak put in the time, resources, and money, so he can do whatever the hell he wants with his bases, just like you can do whatever the hell you want with the stuff you spend time, money, and resources on.

In my opinion giving a player percentage more than one day a week has an unbalancing effect to the game. A rank 400-500-600 whatever they are leading the legions 10-12million ap per week is far and above what they could get with their own planets.

Did they earn it? NO

Do I really care? NO

Should the people in the Imperiums care? YES

The players should move to other legions that won't hamper the development important to low rank players. Our sub/sister legion is level 7 and pay out on an equal basis 7 days a week. They accept low rank players and with the support of Ghosts get all the artifacts they need to complete the bi-weekly missions. I can understand Namalak getting a lions share as he built his base but not the puppets in charge of the other ones.

I'm on the fence about this.

FOR:
I can see why people would be upset with 3/4.
First off, sure, the leader can dish out artis to the members, e.g. quantum flares galore for the current bi-weekly mission.
Everyone's a winner it seems until you look at the arti situation more closely.
Just say I want more rescued prisoners - can the leader give me any?
No, they can't be exchanged in any way at all. Neither can containment missiles, helmsmen, scientists, and a whole host of other things.
In other words, the leaders are possibly getting 50 rescued prisoners per day... that's an extra 100 tactical officers per day, so in a month the leader gets an extra 3,000 attack.
I can see why the little guys aren't happy.

AGAINST:
As Namalak says, it's a capitalist idea. And he's absolutely right. The leader gets the lion's share, which is pretty much as it is in any business.
I work for a law firm in a non-legal capacity, and let's just say they can be generous with their employment perks (as well as salaries).
The guys at the top (the senior lawyers) get humongous salaries and bonuses - many of them didn't build the firm up, but they all contribute to its daily success.
The office minions such as me earn good salaries (better than the market rates) and have good perks too (excellent pension plan, subsidised gym membership, tax-free season ticket loan, up to 30 days' annual leave, half-day Christmas shopping day allowance).
Back to GL... it's same thing here.
The leaders ensure that you get perks such as being able to request a ton of quantum flares at the expense of far fewer rescued prisoners and their ilk.

If you're a little guy who hates the idea of "losing out" on things like rescued prisoners, then Imperium-esque legions aren't for you.
You're better off staying with a split percentage legion and getting 'equal share' despite contributing probably far less than others.

If you're a leader of an Imperium-esque legion, wouldn't you hate to miss out on those 50 rescued prisoners per day on a "3:4 day" basis?
You'd do everything you can to appease your members, so you can cash in on those tasty prisoners

Absolutely right. I started out as an Aerlen Fixer, and it seems there's a disproportionately high percentage of Fixers at lower ranks. But I'm no longer Aerlen or Fixer - and I wonder how many members who join Imperium-esque legions will remain Fixers throughout their time there. Nevertheless, I can only imagine these L7 bases have a ton of shield and hull in the first place, so any other percentage bonuses probably have minimal effect.

I'm now rank 368, and I collect 14 times more AP per day from my planets than I get from my base when it's at 0% base defender bonus.
Even at 100% base defender bonus, I'm still collecting 7 times more AP from my planets than from the base collection.

So if I were to be in an Imperium-esque base, would I (over the 7 days) lose out or even gain MUCH more/less AP?
My feeling is that the numbers are fairly close to be almost meaningless.

I've nothing against these kinds of legions - it's up to gamers how they want to play the game.
But I agree with you that good planet production will outstrip any legion base on a general basis.