So by the posts from the people who say it is bullying, you are stating that a legion can take all the good things a player does but when he does something that gets him into trouble, they don't have to take any part of it?

Isn't that a bit like how Al Queda takes drug money and then when the Afghanis made a big deal about the drug runners Al Queda responded with a video saying "We aren't responsible for the opium trade."

Are you guys seriously going to pull the "I will benefit from it but it has nothing to do with me" line of BS?

Well, nobody has declared war on us for taking a planet before. I've invaded 60 and I'm guessing my legionmates have taken a few. Ultimatums would largely consist of totally neutering a legion to appease, and it involves attacking people that probably haven't even logged in since the invasion.

I'm just fed up with people, you, making threads about it really. Everyone invades planets, you are sheerly being a jerk at your own discretion and spamming the forum to show off, but only the latter actually bothers me.

Kaos,

Every player makes his own decisions; I am not responsible for anyone's decisions except mine.

If the player is part of a legion, that is part of the game mechanics (a legion shouldn't automatically be responsible for every one of it's players); but if that player makes a decision on his own and messes with another player, then that player is responsible for the payback he may/may not get. HOWEVER, if the player's legion is in support of his decision, then that legion is of course now, at that point, responsible as well. But if the legion does not support that decision, then a player reprimand may be in order, which can just be simply "our guy did wrong, you have our permission to do as you please with him" all the way to being booted, but the legion should not be responsible (unless you notice it seems to be SOP with that legion, which may mean that legion is not on the up-and-up, and they should be punished).

If there is a specific example you have, then by all means throw it out here, and you can get our opinion as to what is/was justified.

@Kaos

We have fairly strict guidelines we follow as a Legion and all our members understand that if they do something we consider "STUPID" they can be removed. Demoted if officers at the very least.

And what we consider stupid is fairly easily defined once someone becomes a member. And we don't encourage them to do anything stupid such as taking a planet from someone belonging to a much a higher ranked legion unless they have the ability to flux it and keep it.

I've told them this and if they choose to do it they do so knowing they are on their own. Doesn't make them a bad player.

I had a guy 1/2 my rank take a plane of mine recently. He couldn't hold it. couldn't keep it and couldn't defend it. He will be paying for it for the next day. I don't need to declare war on him or punish his legion for his actions. If they had defended the planet I'd have warped them away or disabled them as well.

assaulting an entire legion may be excessive unless you have evidence it was a coordinated action. if it was the act of a single person, only that person need be involved. however, if multiple people attacked, if they call in backup when you retaliate, or if the opposing legion chooses to defend the offender, you should be able to assault as necessary.

in this situation, you should not need to involve the rest of your legion as it has been only affecting you and with your level, you really should not need to involve your legion mates...until they take other people's planets.

this only applies due to your rank and strength discrepancy. if you and red dwarf were of similiar power, that would warrant full legion involvement, if it were to go to that.

Despite being married to a 'nit' and possibly being shunned and ignored for it... My answer is an emphatic NO. This is a war game. And, there are some legions out there, mine especially, that we consider the act of one as an act of all. To the extent that my legionmates for example would never purposely endanger the rest of the legion for the sake of acquiring one planet... At least without first confirming authorization to perform said action.

That's the answer you wanted to hear right? It seems no other answer gave you satisfaction up to this point. But I'm not just assuaging your ego, I do honestly believe it's not bullying. Regardless of the outcome, aftermath or subsequent consequences (i.e. we had to eject the player because they went against legion mandate not to invade such a significantly stronger legion).

Also, on the note of bullying. One person's bullying is another person's jest. The line moves as observed from one person to another. Some call me a bully because I taunt and demean via comms, while I consider it just psychological warfare. On the other hand, I wouldn't resort to profanity or vulgarity nor would I attempt to disrupt someone's play tactics not intended in the game. Contrarily, one of my legionmates got HAAAAMMERED for a few days by a legion. Some might find that as bullying too. She did not. If anything, she bullied them! LoL It's all a matter of perspective and I think in your particular case Kaos, go in, get your planet back, and smack some hulls for the insolence.

Ejjakai
The Trust

Yes,

But totally within the games mechanics- big question is- unless you have one of my good planets in your planet scan- or i attack you in defence of my legion member what does your declaration of war actually mean? really nothing

If you have one of my good planets- you would have tried to take it already- if it isn't one of my best it is very replaceable- so war only matters if being dis'd off the combat list is an issue

If a legion is weak enough to give up one of it's own over this- then they aren't worth being a member

But also if i take a planet i stay down for two days and take my beating- i don't pick fights my legion can't win and expect them to fight them for me.

so- yes it is bullying- but game mechanics make it counterable for the strong willed

Personally, I agree with those that consider the actions of one to be the actions of the legion. But for those that don't quite see things that way, by multiple people helping to defend an invaded planet, it BECOMES a legion action. Therefore the entire legion should be fair game.

Unfortunately I believe it is to easy to hold a planet now with the changes to defense structures. Taking one back isn't really that much of a reality anymore. When a planet is massive even a low level player can fill it with enough attack/defense/pupulation to hold off the Dybes and NI at the same time.

i've just successfully invaded a planet and if the previous occupant wants to whale on me then great...bring it on.
if he wants to hit my lower ranked legionmates then its bullying...simple as that
i asked nobodies permission to take this planet...therefore any blame is mine and mine alone.
if you cant re-invade and take back your planet then (imho) its tough, but that's the game.
incidentally, you do realise its a game right?

I completely agree its a game which is why I don't get people taking it so personally when I fight back. I didn't start this, I just intend to use any and all means to finish it to my advantage.

Still, those who say legions aren't responsible have avoided answering my two basic questions.

Are you saying that a legion is not responsible for its members?

That a legion can take from its members all the good things like planet shares, NPC alerts, legion bonus but when he does something that starts a fight that they can claim to have no part of him?

Legion are like a Familly.

If the father work for The Godfather, and after some years have trouble with another faction.

And after a contrat the other faction say " give we back our money until tomorow moring or we will kill all your familly, friends neighbor, even the classmate you loose trace from many years and after it we will kill you too".

Him familly will not exclude him from the familly, in a familly we support our member we not deny our familly even when he go strange life choice.

bully or not, finally ALL action in the game are Legion Action, if not, consider get a better legion.

Romp on the other members will not give you back your planet, but will just satisfy your anger.

But remember you "To win without risk is to triumph without glory." [Pierre Corneille]

Kaos...i have no idea if your planet is worth going to war over...i suspect it must be or else you wouldn't even be asking.
but surely you had it defended?...it still got taken?...maybe it was a legion wide effort, who knows?
have you tried asking the legion leader what lengths he is prepared to go to in averting a war?
if it were me and i had stolen a decent (say) gaia then i would be deeper than underground with it...and come and take it back if you're hard enough.
however...if it were my gaia stolen and i couldn't effectively nick it back then i would see what lessons could be learned from the whole sorry debacle and try to ensure it dont happen no more...but that's just me.

5mins prepared.

Nice planet, low def, it deserves to be taken.

yup
pretty much sums it up...and no use crying over spilt milk

Its not my planet, it is one of my legionmates but that is not that topic of this thread. Please don't threadjack. The discussion for this thread is if a small legion attacks a big legion. Is the big legion being "bullies" when they fight back?

It is not bullying if a weaker legion attacks a stronger legion and tha stronger legion retaliates....but in this case one person in Red Dwarf took your buddies planet without any help to do it....but you; who didn't even personally lose a planet to said planet thief over react by declaring a war on a whole legion....hmmmmm. Maybe not bullying but certainly over-reaction on your part.

And Red Dwarf did not attack your legion, one legion member took an under defended planet...who's previous owner obviously can't take back on his own.

Other than the initial theft has anyone actually attacked anyone in your legion....the answere would be no to that wouldn't it.

I'm defending said planet and expect you to warp me away or disable me to get me out of the way so you or one of your legion can retake the planet but to hunt down my legion mates or pay for info on our planets is the act of someone trying to bully someone else into doing what they want.

See you at Tisriadhna...Kurgin

P.S. I bet you're one of those guys who alert your legion on someone for disabling/hacking you once too, judging by your reaction to losing one planet to one person.

LoL

Perspectives.

I bet Kaos is not that bad. But then, even if he is, play the WAR game any way you want, within the confines of the game. Some countries might not like you taking their resources and will then resort to all kinds of tactics. It may be bullying, but so what? War is won with the most bullies. Do not use or do anything that would take away from this being a WAAAAAAR game, and you're fine. Kaos, maybe you're overreacting, that could very well be, but as a member of YOUR legion, isn't it also your responsibility to help RECLAIM any planets a legionmate lost? Granted they may have deserved the theft for not protecting it, but thats for you to discipline them on your own time. Equal force may be honorable, but if your not playing the honorable type (which has nothing to do with you as RL person btw) then go smash em. Play your game any way you want. As long as you arent breaking any Real World rules, there are no rules in a war game.

Ejjakai
The Trust

oh dear...the title of this thread is 'Is it bullying' (?)
it seems, on the face of it, you are askling for others opinions by titling your thread this way?
that being the case, how can i be threadjacking if i venture that opinion?
maybe its only threadjacking if i'm not agreeing with your pov?
one last opinion from me...i think you need to take a step back and read all you have written on this subject, there are more than one threads on this subject, and see if there might be anything resembling overreaction in some of the issues raised.
and to answer the question posed in your quote...no its only bullying if you continue to hit the little guy after he says 'no more' (imho of course)

NO, to say so is to make an assumption that the higher rank player is always more powerful. And, for the lower rank to say he is being bullied, is to admit that he is indeed weaker. On another note, crying "bully" maybe a good strategy for a lower ranked player.

BUT, to declare a legion war over a mere planet is just being warmonger. Not that there's anything wrong with that according to the rules of the game but just not my style. A personal vendetta would be more to my liking.