If arrogance was a person, I'm sure you'd be it. It's okay of you have the ability to see into the future, but there's no need to be an ass to other people because they don't.

Anyway, I see it as an issue. For those that are willing to get hold of another structure of the same type, they're going to be able to squeeze more defense out of a planet for less space. In other words, they're going to have an unfair advantage.

And just so you know, "that's how it's supposed to work" is Tree's excuse for everything.

If it helps any, I had sent in a support ticket to Dan about this issue because I had a planet that had 117,669 defense and 11,025 population. installing one of these on the planet gives me defense +2205. So I of course demolished an obviation barrier to put one in its place and free up a space. The defense had dropped to 111,798. When I sent this to Dan he asked me for a screenshot which I sent him. He then replied with this:

"I think some of the % bonuses simply aren't going into effect on the module bonus. This has been reported. We'll look into that."

So it would seem from that like there is a resolution coming.

So it seems that, perhaps, this isn't intended after all, though I'm sure Tree won't count this evidence either. At least now I can block him, stay out of pointless arguments with people who insist on trying to make arguments to prove that what they want to be true is definitely true, but can't do it logically.

Though saying it seems like a resolution is coming is a bit optimistic at this point. Could be years down the road, although if more structures like this come out I certainly hope that isn't the case.

I've just seen someone have 200,000 defence added from this artifact on a planet with 7k population.

Glitched as hell.

7380 / 7380 Population


Raix Bunker Research: 1, Artifact: 1, Defense: 200000

Edit: the issue appears to be resolved now. Defense is now 1475 from bunker

Hopefully Tree will let us know if this is working as intended; there's no way of knowing otherwise (besides the description, but that doesn't count).

I think this must have been fixed. I've done nothing to the planet since posting this and the defense is now higher. The % bonuses must now be working

Apparently they were working already; so sayeth Tree, knower of all things.

And I believe you are mistaken; just tried demolishing and rebuilding something and it increased (by quite a bit).

It's gone up on one of my planets, so it would appear something has been done to take into account the percentage bonus effects.

Was the population full before?

Yes, it was.

Well, it can't still be completely working, because I demolished the Null Beacon I had placed before this structure, put it back afterward (thus putting it after the Raix Bunker) and the defense increased.

Okay, well, Dan has been a lot slower to admit that this is working as intended than you and Tree are, perhaps you should email him to tell him this is how it's supposed to work?

Yes, if you take a few minutes to actually read what you're replying to, you'll see that I already responded to him bringing up the one other structure that did this. It was also posted in Issues and Support, and Dan also couldn't bring himself to say that it was working as intended.

There is no indication that a STRUCTURE should work like this. I believe the Sentries that can be used on planets work like this, but those are EFFECTS, not STRUCTURES. Either something in-game should indicate that these STRUCTURES don't work like STRUCTURES or they should be changed to work like STRUCTURES. Again, as I have stated multiple times, all that you're proving is that this is how the structure was IMPLEMENTED on the BACK-END, not that it SHOULD work like this from the USER EXPERIENCE, only that it does. He could IMPLEMENT it so that static bonus effects from structures are applied before % bonuses if he wants, it doesn't NEED to work like this. There is nothing in-game that says it SHOULD, only that it DOES, and DOES doesn't imply SHOULD.

To summarize your points:

1) Applied effects from Artifacts work based on the order applied, which is a precedent.

This is a false equivalency; if this were a planet artifact and worked like ship artifacts that would be a precedent, but structures are more akin to ship/base modules, and there is no precedent from those. Applied effects are only temporary, and it's easy to apply them in different orders, which is very unlike structures.

2) There's already a structure that works like this.

This doesn't help your case, because that was also posted in Issues and Support, and it got no response that it was working as intended.

3) It is implemented as an effect, and this is how effects work.

Yes, I know it works like this, but that doesn't imply that it SHOULD work like this. I know how using multiple devices works, maybe we should ask Tree's friend Wolfy if they're working as intended? They aren't, and using them AS IMPLEMENTED is a bannable offense without warning. Saying it DOES work like this because that is how it was IMPLEMENTED implies anything from WORKING AS INTENDED to BANNABLE WITHOUT WARNING.

To summarize my points:

1) Dan has had numerous occasions to say that this was working as intended, and has not. Considering how much heat he probably takes for things that are broken, I find it highly unlikely he would take heat for something that isn't broken when he could simply say "it's fine". The fact that he hasn't gone ahead and simply said that, even if it wasn't originally intended, I think speaks well for his character as a developer, to not simply sweep this under the rug when he could.

2) Nothing in the structure's description indicates it should work like this. It is marked in the same manner as every other structure, so it should work like every other structure.

See, you guys are plenty good at throwing facts at the screen, but you don't understand logic and implication, and that's why you're failing. Most of the things you say are true, but they don't logically support your argument.

To sum up, making BIG words to PROVE your POINT does NOT make it FACT. THERE may ONLY be one other STRUCTURE that is affected by PLACEMENT, however her EXAMPLE proves that MULTIPLE other ARTIFACTS(Yes, same as planet structures) are affected by PLACEMENT on the EFFECTS table.

Your attempt to limit the discussion to only planet artifacts to prove your "point" is flawed at best.

Yes, you could not have foreseen Dan bringing out this structure, but to stamp your feet and pretend that planetary ARTIFACTS should act differently to ship artifacts in regards to percentage boosts makes your case effectively pointless.

As for why Dan hasn't come out to say that it's working as intended, would you honestly accept him saying that it is? or would you start whining and demanding he change it so you can squeeze a little bit more from your planet?

Nothing you have said logically supports your argument that it should work differently. Your attempt to claim that planet structures are like ship modules has already been shotdown by Dan when he replied to a question about salvaging some of the materials after scrapping a structure. You don't pay upkeep on them, they aren't modules.

I'm not talking about the artifact, I'm talking about the structure, which is a permanent fixture, unlike the Tachyon Cylinder and the other named artifacts.

As I said, if you had bothered to read: I believe the Sentries work like this, because they are Artifacts, they are applied effects. The Bunker is a structure, it should work like a structure. Only one other structure works like this.



Again, structures are permanent fixtures, like modules, not applied effects like Artifacts.



Again, the "Artifact" of the Bunker is what is sitting in your cargo, when it is on a planet it is a Structure. If you want to call it an Artifact you can, but if you say that all planet Artifacts should work like this and Structures are Artifacts then all Structures should work like this, which is clearly not the case.



I didn't say they're exactly like modules, just that they're more similar to modules than applied effects. They are permanent fixtures, not temporary boosts.

I'll add your point to the list of points:

4) This is the way artifacts work, and structures are artifacts, so they should work like this.

Sure, if all structures worked like this. They do not. Applied effect artifacts work like this, and 2 structures work like this, but no others do, so again, claiming that structures are equivalent to applied artifacts fails in the case of all but these 2 structures. Implying that this structure should work like the Tachyon Cylinder because you get it from an artifact implies that all structures built from artifacts should work like that, but they do not. All but the Landing Platform have their bonuses applied to the planet before any % bonuses.

If you want to prove my points are invalid, feel free to address them. Remember to consider the implications of what you say; as in this example, you didn't consider that what you were saying applied to all artifact-built structures, and thus was invalid (unless you think all such structures should work this way, but that's more of a Suggestion or an Idea).

Oh, and I'm not stamping my feet, I'm invalidating your poorly thought out arguments. Please try a little harder next time. To borrow something from a show called "Peep Show", proving the flaws in your reasoning is like "sniping innocent bystanders: fun at first, but it quickly becomes a depressing chore".

To quote a lecturer I had the pleasure of studying with

"Those with a vested interest in the outcome of a discussion will use conjecture, speculation and grand generalization in order to win the argument"

Because Dan hasn't come forward and told you otherwise, you believe that it's not working properly.

Because most other structures do it differently, you believe that it isn't working properly.

Because You believe you're right in your assertion that it's not working properly, oh look~ it's not working properly.


Until Dan decides to comment to the contrary, it is working as implemented~

Working as implemented; Yes. Working as intended; Probably not.

Nothing works exactly as "intended"

GTC for example~
Alerts being used for planet sales(Something Dan does not like)
Auto-ranking(Again, something he doesn't like)

And again, as I've said before, using things "as implemented" has gotten people banned without warning, so that means next to nothing.

And again, Dan hasn't commented to the contrary, so there is no reason for this to not be posted in Issues and Support.

I don't even need to prove it isn't working as intended in order to post it here, I just need to have a reasonable doubt, which I do. It isn't as though I'm forcing a change, I'm just requesting this be looked into, so I don't need to prove that it isn't working, I just need to have some reason for posting here.



Seriously, you're going to pull that on me after the bs you pulled in your last argument, and you're going to accuse me of not using proper reasoning? You didn't even read the fact that you implied all artifact-built structures work like this, which they don't, and you accuse me of not using proper reasoning? Go back to that professor and see what he think about that, kid.

You know what, since you like using quotes instead of reason, you might want to toss this one his way:

"If you can bear to hear the truth you’ve spoken
Twisted by knaves to make a trap for fools,"

from "If-" by Rudyard Kipling. I'm sure he'd love to hear a former student say they used his quote to "win" an argument, rather than making even the smallest effort to show that the refutation of that student's only point was somehow incorrect, and that the point was somehow at least somewhat valid. Fortunately, I'm not a fool, so I'm not falling for your rhetorical trap. Valid arguments and reasoning only, please.

I have only used proper reasoning to refute you people. You know why it seems like I'm just making things up in order to win? Because you fools never had a chance, you were outmaneuvered before you even took to the field. I thought of, and defeated, almost everything you came up with before I even posted this topic. Everything I didn't prepare for, such as your argument, was too stupid for me to have thought of and was defeated as easily as it looked. You never had a chance, you don't have a chance now, and you never will have a chance. The battle is over, you people are just bodies lying on the ground waiting for a mercy killing.

Well, at least you've given up on pretending you have any good points to make.

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Back on topic:

Two structures provide Defense or Population, but unlike most structures that also provide Defense or Population (with exactly the same name given to the bonus), their order on the planet matters. They only receive bonuses from artifacts placed after them. There is no indication in-game that they will work like this, so many people may not even realize they could gain a lot of Defense by moving structures around. None of us know whether or not this is intended behavior, so I am posting in Issues and Support to get Support on what could be considered an Issue. Without any in-game indication that they will behave in this manner, it is possible that this was not foreseen, because there is no indication that it was intended and foreseen. It is possible it was an unintended result of implementation. I would like to know if it is an Issue or not. If I know, I can plan accordingly. Suggestions and Ideas need not apply, only facts about the Issue or Support for the issue required.

I know applied effects work like this, and they are artifacts, and this structure is built from an artifact. However, many structures are built from artifacts and are not like this, so that doesn't help.

I know the Landing Platform works like this, but that has also been raised as an issue, so that doesn't resolve the matter.

I know this is how it is implemented, but that means little, considering using multiple devices as implemented can get someone banned without warning.

Thank you dev team, for ensuring that potential issues are resolved or made clear to not be an issue.